I keep hearing that Marvin and Dalton are the problem

[treee]

Just feeling out the crowd, but is it still the general consensus that Marvin handcuffs his OC's? I get the impression that he does, and I think its why we have to be bursting at the seams with talent to have an above average offense.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 11:33 AM)treee Wrote: Just feeling out the crowd, but is it still the general consensus that Marvin handcuffs his OC's? I get the impression that he does, and I think its why we have to be bursting at the seams with talent to have an above average offense.

I was on the fence, until Lazor let it out that Marvin decides the personnel.  So, yeah, I agree with you.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-10-2017, 11:33 AM)treee Wrote: Just feeling out the crowd, but is it still the general consensus that Marvin handcuffs his OC's? I get the impression that he does, and I think its why we have to be bursting at the seams with talent to have an above average offense.

While it's possible, I find it improbable that EVERY offensive coordinator under Merv has run primarily on 1st downs, has never tried to score at the end of the first half, and that we go run heavy once we build a lead. So, yeah, Merv handcuffs his OCs.

[*Synric*]

(11-10-2017, 10:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not always, Zimmer and Gruden come to mind.....and not coincidentally, those were some good years for the Bengals offensively and defensively.....and I feel Hue was a good move to replace Jay.  Other than that, you're right, and the struggles show it.

I think Paul Guenther is underrated.

 Since he's been defensive coordinator the Bengals have only really had one solid year of offense, but his defense has been consistently decent. Now with the position coach changes we see a different outlook on the defensive front.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 12:52 PM)Synric Wrote: I think Paul Guenther is underrated.

 Since he's been defensive coordinator the Bengals have only really had one solid year of offense, but his defense has been consistently decent. Now with the position coach changes we see a different outlook on the defensive front.

I agree, and I should have mentioned him.....he was a good promotion as well.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2017, 09:56 AM)Synric Wrote: I've always thought Tomlin was way overrated and is given credit for some some excellent coordinators. 

As Wyche said, like Marv?

I was talking specifically about personality type though. Chin and Tomlin both oozed confidence. Marvin oozes something else. Like that stuff possoms secrete when they play dead.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-10-2017, 11:33 AM)treee Wrote: Just feeling out the crowd, but is it still the general consensus that Marvin handcuffs his OC's? I get the impression that he does, and I think its why we have to be bursting at the seams with talent to have an above average offense.

I think it's a double edged sword actually. In fact I did a thread on it few days ago.

I think Marvin dictates what skill players are starting, how many snaps each gets, etc. "Ross wasn't a part of the game plan" and as Wyche noted Lazor even said Marvin controls who plays.

And I think P. Alexander dictates who is in on the O-line. Remember the speech he gave last season after Ogbuehi was sat down ? "we don't care how you feel we're trying to win football games" words to that effect. I think he finally got overruled and that was his way of playing it off, like he was all hard on OGie about it. PA has Mike's ear and he's determined Bodine is gonna play, he's not gonna admit defeat.

And I fully believe Marvin dictates to Lazor or whomever in the past how the offense is going to attack or not.

2:00 minutes until the half up 10-3. Marvin breaks in on the offensive channel "we're going to run it here, take it easy, no big chances". So we punt it with 1:25 to play and the other team punches it in to tie the game.

Marvin is stuck in 1980