How the Browns' trade for AJ McCarron fell apart

[Sled21]

(11-01-2017, 12:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought whichever team had the rights to a player when they hit FA would have the possibility of getting a comp pick if that player went elsewhere in FA? Since SF would have the rights to Garropolo and he left to another team after this season, wouldn't that make SF eligible for comp pick based on his contract he were to sign and how well he did?

I'm not sure. Ross Tucker was talking about the deal with Andrew Brandt this morning, and they were talking about how crazy it was and they could not figure out SF's line of thinking. I guess JG is an unrestricted FA maybe? According to them, SF gets nothing if he walks, so they have to Franchise him or write him a contract, and it would be hard to put a value on him.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2017, 12:51 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not sure. Ross Tucker was talking about the deal with Andrew Brandt this morning, and they were talking about how crazy it was and they could not figure out SF's line of thinking. I guess JG is an unrestricted FA maybe? According to them, SF gets nothing if he walks, so they have to Franchise him or write him a contract, and it would be hard to put a value on him.

Even if a player is an unrestricted FA, there should still be the possibility of a comp pick.

[Atomic Orange]

(11-01-2017, 12:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't think they would get a comp pick if Jimmy G walks, as his contract will be expired... that's the point, he brings 8 games and that is it. I think SF was insane to give a 2nd for that unless they plan on rolling with him and offering him a huge contract. Plus, word is they are in the middle of the Kirk Cousins chase....

Garoppolo is a Belichick/Brady protege and the most sought after FA QB out there. He will get his contract in SF.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-01-2017, 10:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This is still partly on the Bengals because of the ridiculous price tag they had on McCarron. They should have been willing to shop McCarron for a 2nd rounder, nothing more. If Garropolo only fetches a 2nd rounder, McCarron should not fetch more than that. The fact the Browns became desperate enough to cave to those outrageous terms is a different topic, but this deal probably would have gotten done before the deadline if Brown wasn't asking for so much in return. What this also indicates to me is that Cleveland seems to be willing to move on from Kizer already. And if McCarron does become RFA vs UFA, I'd slap a 2nd round tender on him and let the Browns take him that way.

This. If there was ANY flexibility whatsoever, a deal would've been struck a long time ago. 

(11-01-2017, 12:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I still think this was all a ploy by the Bengals front office to keep us from lambasting the team for doing nothing about the offensive line.

It's crossed my mind. Imagine if this non-trade wasn't in the news? What would be the story of the day for Bengals fans?

"Bengals do nothing for o-line just days after embarrassing performance"

Cordy Glenn, Duane Brown, Josh Sitton and several others were supposedly on the market. Not even a sniff from the Bengals.

We should be roasting them right now, not semi-complimenting them for a trade that didn't even happen.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-01-2017, 12:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought whichever team had the rights to a player when they hit FA would have the possibility of getting a comp pick if that player went elsewhere in FA? Since SF would have the rights to Garropolo and he left to another team after this season, wouldn't that make SF eligible for comp pick based on his contract he were to sign and how well he did?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2741641-jimmy-garoppolo-contract-extension-reportedly-targeted-by-49ers-after-trade

Quote:Garoppolo will become an unrestricted free agent after the season, but the 49ers don't have to sign him to a long-term deal to keep him; San Francisco can place the franchise tag or transition tag on him.

It's pretty much guaranteed that SF will franchise Jimmy if they can't get a deal done before then. Assuming he doesn't flop.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2017, 02:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2741641-jimmy-garoppolo-contract-extension-reportedly-targeted-by-49ers-after-trade


It's pretty much guaranteed that SF will franchise Jimmy if they can't get a deal done before then. Assuming he doesn't flop.

Yea that was my thinking. Why bother trading for a QB who is expected to hit FA after this year with 8 games to go this year and being winless? You don't make that trade without the intent to extend him. The 49ers essentially traded a 2nd round pick to see how he does for half a season and also be the first team to get to sign him to new deal (if they want).

[Shake n Blake]

(11-01-2017, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea that was my thinking. Why bother trading for a QB who is expected to hit FA after this year with 8 games to go this year and being winless? You don't make that trade without the intent to extend him. The 49ers essentially traded a 2nd round pick to see how he does for half a season and also be the first team to get to sign him to new deal (if they want).

I think that's exactly their plan. A half season to evaluate him, then they'll get first crack at a contract with him and can franchise him to have more time, if necessary.

[*Synric*]

(11-01-2017, 02:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This. If there was ANY flexibility whatsoever, a deal would've been struck a long time ago. 


It's crossed my mind. Imagine if this non-trade wasn't in the news? What would be the story of the day for Bengals fans?

"Bengals do nothing for o-line just days after embarrassing performance"

Cordy Glenn, Duane Brown, Josh Sitton and several others were supposedly on the market. Not even a sniff from the Bengals.

We should be roasting them right now, not semi-complimenting them for a trade that didn't even happen.

Cordy Glenn would be huge and I know not this season with thr deadline up but it's a name to revisit right after. Getting Glenn would open up the draft for the Bengals allowing them to target interior offensive linemen.

That said with a decent price tag Glenn would also be on the radar of alot of teams.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2017, 12:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I still think this was all a ploy by the Bengals front office to keep us from lambasting the team for doing nothing about the offensive line.

(11-01-2017, 02:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's crossed my mind. Imagine if this non-trade wasn't in the news? What would be the story of the day for Bengals fans?

"Bengals do nothing for o-line just days after embarrassing performance"

Cordy Glenn, Duane Brown, Josh Sitton and several others were supposedly on the market. Not even a sniff from the Bengals.

We should be roasting them right now, not semi-complimenting them for a trade that didn't even happen.

I can't help but agree with both of you.  Trading McCarron would have only shifted the spotlight away from the fact that the Bengals did nothing to improve the team NOW.  Draft picks are fine, but we are already looking to have 10 in the next draft.  We needed help on the OL, right NOW.

So much for the build up for the 50th Anniversary season, folks.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-01-2017, 02:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This. If there was ANY flexibility whatsoever, a deal would've been struck a long time ago. 


It's crossed my mind. Imagine if this non-trade wasn't in the news? What would be the story of the day for Bengals fans?

"Bengals do nothing for o-line just days after embarrassing performance"

Cordy Glenn, Duane Brown, Josh Sitton and several others were supposedly on the market. Not even a sniff from the Bengals.

We should be roasting them right now, not semi-complimenting them for a trade that didn't even happen.

Was listening to Lapham the other nite and he said asking price high on mid season lineman and it makes sense that 2 of the 3 players you mentioned never moved to any team and it seems the Brown trade was a late get him out of here trade that still cost 2 draft picks and a player.. I heard the Bengals did call but also the AJ offer was way too good to pass on... was a great move by Bengals high 2/3  WOW.. not our fault the Browns are the worst organization in the league by far

[Deanlj69]

Very disappointing deadline. Browns screw us out of 2 picks to help us improve our line through the draft and more importantly we don’t make a trade to improve the line now and prevent what seems like an inevitable forthcoming injury to Andy. Messed up front office. Honestly I like AJ and Andy too much to see them rot here. Give them a chance to win elsewhere.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-01-2017, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can't help but agree with both of you.  Trading McCarron would have only shifted the spotlight away from the fact that the Bengals did nothing to improve the team NOW.  Draft picks are fine, but we are already looking to have 10 in the next draft.  We needed help on the OL, right NOW.

So much for the build up for the 50th Anniversary season, folks.

Another reason I'm not freaking out that we didn't trade McCarron (yet). We'll have a bunch of high draft picks next year anyway.

I'm more worried about now, with Green, Atkins and Dunlap all nearing 30. The lack of urgency to win is pathetic. These guys deserve better.

(11-01-2017, 08:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Was listening to Lapham the other nite and he said asking price high on mid season lineman ...

The price of ignoring the line is going to be much higher. As in another lost season and pissed off players. Maybe a QB injury.

(11-01-2017, 08:59 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: Very disappointing deadline. Browns screw us out of 2 picks to help us improve our line through the draft and more importantly we don’t make a trade to improve the line now and prevent what seems like an inevitable forthcoming injury to Andy. Messed up front office. Honestly I like AJ and Andy too much to see them rot here. Give them a chance to win elsewhere.

I'm to the point where I hope some of my favorite guys get out while they can. It won't make Mike change (nothing does), but it will embarrass him further.

[Whatever]

(11-01-2017, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can't help but agree with both of you.  Trading McCarron would have only shifted the spotlight away from the fact that the Bengals did nothing to improve the team NOW.  Draft picks are fine, but we are already looking to have 10 in the next draft.  We needed help on the OL, right NOW.

So much for the build up for the 50th Anniversary season, folks.

The season is pretty much already lost.  We're 3-4, have 2 losses in the division, and just barely beat a wretched Colts team without their starting QB and a bunch of other key players.  The players are already disinterested, the effort isn't there, guys are spouting off in the media, and it's painfully obvious Marvin has lost this team.  Adding an OL isn't going to fix all those issues, and honestly, the whole line needs rebuilt.  If the rest of the line was good or even average, and one guy was putred, it would make more sense.  They gambled on the youngsters, and they haven't stepped up.  

[TKUHL]

Maybe the Browns thought they were trading for the other AJ then found out last minute that it was McCarron. Hmmm

[jowczarski]

Thanks for reading/sharing and your questions. Also, for your patience. Sitting in Atlanta waiting to get to Jacksonville.

@GeorgeCantstandya - Do you think AJ is worth a 2nd round tender if he remains in restricted free agency status for 2018? Also what do to think the chances are that he gets his status overturned and ends up being an unrestricted free agent?

@JBBengal – RFA appeal / 1st round tender

One - Love the handle George.
Yes, now that everyone knows he could have been had for a two, setting it at a two is reasonable. I don’t think a team would move to give up a one for him – they could get several bites on a two, though. Players rarely win these cases. Of course he feels he has a strong one, but since I can’t see exactly what his case is, I’m going to say the odds lean toward the Bengals.

@ShakenBlake - but did the Bengals even have any internal discussions about trading to improve this laughably bad o-line?

Honestly. No. And I know that to be true.

@Synric & @HarleyDog - You'd think the league would be willing to work with thr Browns over a paperwork mishap.

They would have if the Browns did ANYTHING to tell the league they were trying to get this done. They did nothing. They never communicated they were making a trade until after the deadline had passed. If the first time the league hears from you is 4:01, you’re SOL.

@SunsetBengal - Tells me that neither side must have been "all in" on the deal, otherwise it would have gotten done.

Untrue. Bengals were all in.

@ochocincos - If Garropolo only fetches a 2nd rounder, McCarron should not fetch more than that. // It was only in a desperation move by the Browns at the last minute to accept such a deal // You bring up a good point regarding the division rival. Perhaps it wouldn't have been a 2nd and 3rd if it were to a team outside of the division.

I think the Jimmy G trade from the night before helped change the price. To your second point – EXACTLY. And they got what they wanted. A haul for a backup QB. Honestly, I don’t fault the club for its prices on the QB2 at all. And yes, a division rival had to pay “more.” I know this.

@PhilHos - I still think this was all a ploy by the Bengals front office to keep us from lambasting the team for doing nothing about the offensive line.

Trust me – this never entered their mind, ever. The Browns accepted an offer that was quite unbelievable.

@ShakeNBlake - I'm more worried about now, with Green, Atkins and Dunlap all nearing 30.

Very valid concerns.

[Igor]

He needs to start over that ginger step child pos we have at qb