Fixing this Trainwreck

[THE PISTONS]

Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

My main theme would be to make the team more physical and tougher.

1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football. He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy. There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

[Interceptor]

(12-05-2017, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

If this is the case - nothing.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-05-2017, 02:49 PM)Interceptor Wrote: If this is the case - nothing.

It's been the case for 26 years.

[Interceptor]

(12-05-2017, 02:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's been the case for 26 years.

But now they are making a good case for it.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

This time next season we’ll be writhing in mental pain once more, complaining about the Piano Man’s blocking schemes, wondering why Paul Guenther never blitzes, asking ourselves why Marvin orders prevent defense in the first half, and trying figure out why we went 0-2 against the Steelers again.

[bengals67]

(12-05-2017, 03:05 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This time next season we’ll be writhing in mental pain once more, complaining about the Piano Man’s blocking schemes, wondering why Paul Guenther never blitzes, asking ourselves why Marvin orders prevent defense in the first half, and trying figure out why we went 0-2 against the Steelers again.

Based upon history, this will be true.

One difference- lots of fans and people on this board will abandon the Bengals without a major house cleaning.

Doesn't matter because they will be moving when lease is up.

[BrownAssClown]

"Well, we know that ownership and management won't change"----The Pistons.
That's all you needed to say. Our only hope is when the Blackburns finally take over, will they run things differently? Marvin leaving? Big Whoop. Shula,Coslet, LaBeau,Lewis, zero championships, zero playoff victories. I'm not going to get excited over a new puppet.

[nickndfl]

The other 3 teams in the AFC North are praying that the Bengals sign Marvin to a lifetime contract.

[bengalguy71]

(12-05-2017, 03:58 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: "Well, we know that ownership and management won't change"----The Pistons.
That's all you needed to say. Our only hope is when the Blackburns finally take over, will they run things differently? Marvin leaving? Big Whoop. Shula,Coslet, LaBeau,Lewis, zero championships, zero playoff victories. I'm not going to get excited over a new puppet.

EVEN if a great selection was made at HC I have zero confidence that MB would give him free reign.

[3wt]

My main theme would be to make the team more physical, smarter and tougher.


1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. Excellent point.  He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. Another excellent point.  I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. I think Hue is overrated.  Too gimmicky.  I actually like Lazor better.  He gets better every week.  Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football.  Major priority, and a good solution.   You may have to pay more than 6 million for him... but do it.  He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy.  I like it.  Also, I noted you mention safety in your BPA scenario - which I like.   I would also consider CB.  I mean besides Jackson I think we have a pedestrian lot.  And Dre is definitely not worth the money we're paying him.  There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.  Unless you can prove he's not going to recover from his back surgery I would not let him go.  He's a monster if (but a big if) he remains healthy.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

Nice post

[THE PISTONS]

(12-05-2017, 03:58 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: "Well, we know that ownership and management won't change"----The Pistons.
That's all you needed to say. Our only hope is when the Blackburns finally take over, will they run things differently? Marvin leaving? Big Whoop. Shula,Coslet, LaBeau,Lewis, zero championships, zero playoff victories. I'm not going to get excited over a new puppet.

Do you think they will be that different? I mean they've learned the business from their family and never worked for any other teams.

I assume it will be more of the same.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-05-2017, 04:59 PM)3wt Wrote: My main theme would be to make the team more physical, smarter and tougher.


1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. Excellent point.  He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. Another excellent point.  I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. I think Hue is overrated.  Too gimmicky.  I actually like Lazor better.  He gets better every week.  Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football.  Major priority, and a good solution.   You may have to pay more than 6 million for him... but do it.  He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy.  I like it.  Also, I noted you mention safety in your BPA scenario - which I like.   I would also consider CB.  I mean besides Jackson I think we have a pedestrian lot.  And Dre is definitely not worth the money we're paying him.  There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.  Unless you can prove he's not going to recover from his back surgery I would not let him go.  He's a monster if (but a big if) he remains healthy.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

Nice post

Thanks for the comments.

re: Eifert - He's played in something like 39 of 80 games in his career. I think expecting him to play in 12 games a year is a bit much. IF we could get him for $3-4 million a year, I might do it. For anything more, I let him walk.

[XenoMorph]

(12-05-2017, 03:48 PM)bengals67 Wrote: One difference- lots of fans and people on this board will abandon the Bengals without a major house cleaning.

The rest of us wont miss one of them that go.

[corpjet]

1.  Yes 
2.  Please no, he's a product of the system, name a Patriots coordinators who left and succeeded?  Weiss No, Josh No, I wouldn't say Bill Obrien has succeeded in the NFL although he has more playoff wins that Marvin.
3.  ok but doubt it happens
4.  Yes, should have been waived this year (I think a new HC cuts Adam anyways)
5.  ok but doubt it happens
6.  OT in round 1, if you need to trade back fine
7.  ok
8.  unless Eifert comes cheap yes let him walk, I would rather draft another lineman than TE

[Jpoore]

(12-05-2017, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

My main theme would be to make the team more physical and tougher.

1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football. He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy. There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

1/2.Why woild u fire urban, considered by most to be the best at his position? Keep guenther as well.  Fire everyone else start fresh. Hire Josh McDaniels as HC with Jay gruden or hue Jackson as oc. 

3.we can sign norwell but but it'll take 8.5 million or so for an average guard. This is a super top heavy and depth heavy guard draft. Sign a elite guard in the second round instead of having 2 average guards in norwell and boling. 

4.if no dead money then I'd be fine cutting Adam Jones. Micheal Johnson we'll keep. He's actually been looking very very good as the Wallace gilberry role.

5. I'd much rather draft Billy price out of osu. Center with not just the versatility to play guard or center but can do both at an elite level. He's our first round target in a trade back. Use that money on something else. He's a 5-6 time pro bowler at minimum. Dt Christian wilkins this time last year looked like the number 1 overall pick. Now? He's a concencus early second round pick. He's the third best player on that dline and struggles with powerful guards. I don't want him. If I was making a top 5 target list for Bengals in 1st and 2nd round it would go like this.
1. Billy price.center
2. Derwin James ss/fs/CB basically a better honey badger
3. Roquan Smith. Lb dude is a top 5 talent an amazing lb. He's 10 times the player that rueben foster was
4. Bradley Chubb edge the next von Miller.
5. Courtland Sutton wr the next Julio Jones.
Round 2.
1. Will Hernandez guard the best guard in the draft. 3 straight years of 93+ grades in pass and and run blocking. 
2. Martinis Rankin ot an exceptional tackle that will go super late round 1- early round 2.
3. CB Josh Jackson just an exceptional playmaker.
4. Denzel ward CB an elite spot CB in the league which is where we struggle.
5. Mark Andrews te oklahoma
5b Mason Rudolph qb1.
7. If we could have a lb Corp of Tahir Whitehead, vontaze burfict, and roquan Smith that would be insane 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-05-2017, 06:49 PM)Jpoore Wrote: 1/2.Why woild u fire urban, considered by most to be the best at his position? Keep guenther as well.  Fire everyone else start fresh. Hire Josh McDaniels as HC with Jay gruden or hue Jackson as oc. 

3.we can sign norwell but but it'll take 8.5 million or so for an average guard. This is a super top heavy and depth heavy guard draft. Sign a elite guard in the second round instead of having 2 average guards in norwell and boling. 

4.if no dead money then I'd be fine cutting Adam Jones. Micheal Johnson we'll keep. He's actually been looking very very good as the Wallace gilberry role.

5. I'd much rather draft Billy price out of osu. Center with not just the versatility to play guard or center but can do both at an elite level. He's our first round target in a trade back. Use that money on something else. He's a 5-6 time pro bowler at minimum. Dt Christian wilkins this time last year looked like the number 1 overall pick. Now? He's a concencus early second round pick. He's the third best player on that dline and struggles with powerful guards. I don't want him. If I was making a top 5 target list for Bengals in 1st and 2nd round it would go like this.
1. Billy price.center
2. Derwin James ss/fs/CB basically a better honey badger
3. Roquan Smith. Lb dude is a top 5 talent an amazing lb. He's 10 times the player that rueben foster was
4. Bradley Chubb edge the next von Miller.
5. Courtland Sutton wr the next Julio Jones.
Round 2.
1. Will Hernandez guard the best guard in the draft. 3 straight years of 93+ grades in pass and and run blocking. 
2. Martinis Rankin ot an exceptional tackle that will go super late round 1- early round 2.
3. CB Josh Jackson just an exceptional playmaker.
4. Denzel ward CB an elite spot CB in the league which is where we struggle.
5. Mark Andrews te oklahoma
5b Mason Rudolph qb1.
7. If we could have a lb Corp of Tahir Whitehead, vontaze burfict, and roquan Smith that would be insane 

What exactly does Guenther do so great? They play weak zone defense and allow 4th quarter scores a lot. The loss to the Steelers was just as much about the defense as the offense.

[*PhilHos*]

I gotta say, as bad as this season has been, I'm excited for the coaching change. Sure, I may be negative that Brown will screw the pooch, but the last time he chose a HC, he didn't do a bad job. Sure, he probably should've chosen Coughlin but Merv was not a bad decision. The problem with Merv was that he should've been let go years ago. Merv got us to be a playoff contender, but he CLEARLY was not going to get us over that playoff win hump.

[muskiesfan]

(12-05-2017, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

My main theme would be to make the team more physical and tougher.

1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football. He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy. There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

1) I really hope this happens. It needs to happen. However, Mike Brown is exceptionally loyal. While I get the feeling that Lewis may not want to come back, that doesn't mean some of the others don't want to. I fully expect Alexander the Great to be back. I just don't see Brown giving a new head coach the power to hire his own coaching staff.

2) I would love to see an offensive minded head coach.

3) $6m is about the max Brown would give an interior OLineman. I highly doubt the Bengals would go after him though because A) cost B) he's an outside free agent C) the owner/GM doesn't value interior OLine D) we have to make sure there is saved cap

4) Johnson maybe. Brown is crazy loyal to Pacman though. He'll see the end of his contract.

5) This has the slightest bit of potential. If Bodine will re-sign for less though, you know who the Brown family will sign.

6) IF we have an entirely new staff, I'd let the new HC draft guys to fit whatever system he wants to run with. After Lewis is gone, I have a feeling we may not always be drafting BPA.

7) The only chance this happens is someone on the cheap, over the hill, or both.

8) I don't know that drafting a TE is needed. Kroft is playing well and Uzomah has moments. I'd have no problem moving forward with those 2 at TE.

I like a lot of your ideas and I agree with what you're thinking, but we're turning over a coaching staff at best, not the owner/GM.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-06-2017, 12:43 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: 1) I really hope this happens. It needs to happen. However, Mike Brown is exceptionally loyal. While I get the feeling that Lewis may not want to come back, that doesn't mean some of the others don't want to. I fully expect Alexander the Great to be back. I just don't see Brown giving a new head coach the power to hire his own coaching staff.

According to our very own Jim O., not a single coach on the coaching staff is under contract after this season. This gives Brown the perfect opportunity to officially turn the team over to Katie and allow her to pick the coach (after hiring a GM first?) and let that coach hire his own staff.
Of course, this means, that Brown will most likely stay on another year while extending as many position coaches as possible while offering Guenther the head coaching position.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-06-2017, 01:12 PM)PhilHos Wrote: According to our very own Jim O., not a single coach on the coaching staff is under contract after this season. This gives Brown the perfect opportunity to officially turn the team over to Katie and allow her to pick the coach (after hiring a GM first?) and let that coach hire his own staff.
Of course, this means, that Brown will most likely stay on another year while extending as many position coaches as possible while offering Guenther the head coaching position.

Why do we think Katie will be some great owner/GM? She's been with the Bengals her entire career and no other NFL Teams. Do we really expect her to do things that differently?

IF say the Steelers had a GM vacancy, would she be interviewed and considered? IF any GM vacancy opened, would she be considered?