Three Questions

[Big Boss]

1) Earlier in the season, there was a report that Mike Brown was displeased with the team's performance, believing that there was enough talent on the roster and essentially calling out the coaches. If there is truth to that report, and Brown believes coaching is the issue here, how does he justify bringing Marvin back?

2) Mo Egger raised an interesting point last week. Back in 2002 when we were in the market for a new head coach, the situation was not too dissimilar from where we are now. Fans aren't showing up, fans are fed up, the city has grown apathetic towards the team. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but at the time Marvin Lewis was a hot candidate for a head coaching job. Perhaps THE hottest new candidate on the market. And Mike Brown hired him. He didn't hire from within the existing organization. He brought in a hot candidate to revitalize fan interest. So as we go into this off season under the assumption that Marvin is gone, what are the odds that Brown pursues a hot candidate once again? Promoting Guenther isn't going to put asses back in seats.

3) None of the coaches are under contract after this season. However, we know Brown is close friends with at least one assistant coach (Alexander). Even if we bring in a new head coach, will he be given free reign to choose who stays and who goes, or will Brown basically tell him who's sticking around (spoiler alert: Alexander)?

[NATI BENGALS]

I think the 50 year mark held a lot of significance for Mike.

This season being as big of a disappointment as it has probably stings worse than the others.

Probably just my foolish optimism. But i think big changes are coming. Maybe even some changes to the management structure up top.

[*Nately120*]

(12-10-2017, 09:00 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I think the 50 year mark held a lot of significance for Mike.

This season being as big of a disappointment as it has probably stings worse than the others.

Probably just my foolish optimism. But i think big changes are coming. Maybe even some changes to the management structure up top.

I hope you are right, but if there is one thing Mike Brown absolutely HAS to be OK with by this point in his life, it's losing football games.  

[J24]

Question 4 How much are we willing to spend Question 5.) Are we open to trading one of these 4 Geno, AJ Green, Carlos Dunlap, or Andy Dalton. Question 6.) How much is Andys worth?

[*bengalfan74*]

1. I'm pretty sure that was an actual quote taken from a MB preseason interview.

2. I sure hope MB is smart enough to know the ML tenure has run it's course and change is drastically needed ! But I wouldn't bet the bank on it.

3. That's the part that would shock me the most. MB is a control freak and fights minor changes tooth and nail. I can't see him letting a new HC just take over and run the whole show including hiring his own staff.

A tiny part of me is holding out hope that MB will step away after this season and cede control to Katie and Co. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Pat5775]

(12-10-2017, 08:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: 1) Earlier in the season, there was a report that Mike Brown was displeased with the team's performance, believing that there was enough talent on the roster and essentially calling out the coaches.  If there is truth to that report, and Brown believes coaching is the issue here, how does he justify bringing Marvin back?

2) Mo Egger raised an interesting point last week.  Back in 2002 when we were in the market for a new head coach, the situation was not too dissimilar from where we are now.  Fans aren't showing up, fans are fed up, the city has grown apathetic towards the team.  Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but at the time Marvin Lewis was a hot candidate for a head coaching job.  Perhaps THE hottest new candidate on the market.  And Mike Brown hired him.  He didn't hire from within the existing organization.  He brought in a hot candidate to revitalize fan interest.  So as we go into this off season under the assumption that Marvin is gone, what are the odds that Brown pursues a hot candidate once again?  Promoting Guenther isn't going to put asses back in seats.

3) None of the coaches are under contract after this season.  However, we know Brown is close friends with at least one assistant coach (Alexander).  Even if we bring in a new head coach, will he be given free reign to choose who stays and who goes, or will Brown basically tell him who's sticking around (spoiler alert: Alexander)?

I do agree with Mike on the talent aspect. This team should have been way better than they are. Coaching has killed it. 

The only way Mike brings Marvin back is if he can't find someone he deems a "suitable replacement". Contrary to popular belief, he does care about the fans.... Attendance numbers. If there's ever a threat to selling tickets, Mike will make necessary changes. And as you say, going into this offseason it's a lot like it was in 2002 (thankfully). Otherwise, there is little doubt he wouldn't promote from within.

Also... I believe we will see an announcement that Katie will be taking over the team in January. How much control she allows the next coach remains to be seen... But I don't think she's nearly as egotistical as her father. Time will tell. 

[Benton]

I'll still be pretty surprised if Marvin isn't back next season.

[*Nately120*]

(12-10-2017, 10:16 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Also... I believe we will see an announcement that Katie will be taking over the team in January. How much control she allows the next coach remains to be seen... But I don't think she's nearly as egotistical as her father. Time will tell. 

That's possible.  I personally have to just think that Mike Brown has a different assessment of "success" than we do.  For all we know Mike's family might want him to make real NFL moves, but he's father and father knows best and he's going to keep the money rolling in and secure his family and friends lifestyle even if it's against their wishes.

Or maybe he just looks at all the NFL teams that have expensive practice facilities and GMs and don't win the SB.  Either way, the guy is 82 and I've never met anyone over 40, much less over 80, who likes to make changes and/or think that he's wrong or should be questioned.

(12-10-2017, 10:19 PM)Benton Wrote: I'll still be pretty surprised if Marvin isn't back next season.

I'm with ya.  The same thing that made me pretty sure we were going to lose to the Steelers when we were up 17-0 and embarrassing them is the same thing that makes me assume Marvin will be back until he's legitimately gone.  Anything before that is just speculation.  I had more of a feeling Marvin would be back BEFORE this game, though.  We have made excuses all year that we should be way better than we were and those excuses could be used to keep Marvin since that's what Mike almost certainly wants.  This game was just so terrible that it seems clear Marvin could walk away.

But until it actually happens...

[muskiesfan]

(12-10-2017, 08:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: 1) Earlier in the season, there was a report that Mike Brown was displeased with the team's performance, believing that there was enough talent on the roster and essentially calling out the coaches.  If there is truth to that report, and Brown believes coaching is the issue here, how does he justify bringing Marvin back?

2) Mo Egger raised an interesting point last week.  Back in 2002 when we were in the market for a new head coach, the situation was not too dissimilar from where we are now.  Fans aren't showing up, fans are fed up, the city has grown apathetic towards the team.  Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but at the time Marvin Lewis was a hot candidate for a head coaching job.  Perhaps THE hottest new candidate on the market.  And Mike Brown hired him.  He didn't hire from within the existing organization.  He brought in a hot candidate to revitalize fan interest.  So as we go into this off season under the assumption that Marvin is gone, what are the odds that Brown pursues a hot candidate once again?  Promoting Guenther isn't going to put asses back in seats.

3) None of the coaches are under contract after this season.  However, we know Brown is close friends with at least one assistant coach (Alexander).  Even if we bring in a new head coach, will he be given free reign to choose who stays and who goes, or will Brown basically tell him who's sticking around (spoiler alert: Alexander)?

1) Actions speak louder than words. Everyone knew the OLine was going to be an issue and absolutely nothing was done about it. If Mike Brown genuinely thought the team was fine and full of talent, it just further proves that our owner/GM is an idiot and shouldn't be making any decisions on the team. It also further proves what everyone says, Brown values money first and winning does not hold a candle to his desire to obtain more money.

2) I'm hoping the Brown family is intelligent enough to go outside of the organization. If I recall correctly, Marvin was actually Katie's choice for head coach, not Mike Brown's. Hopefully he'll be willing to listen to someone this time around as well instead of going with the typical (lazy) Mike Brown way of doing things. However, it still won't be a shock if Marvin is offered an opportunity to stay. I believe the only way Lewis leaves the Bengals is if it's what Lewis wants to do.

3) I don't believe for a second that Brown is going to allow the next coach to pick his staff. I have no doubt that Brown is not going to allow his good friend to lose his gravy train. As we all know, performance is obviously not the metric Mike Brown uses in evaluating coaches or else Alexander the Great would've been out on his ass a long time ago.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-10-2017, 10:19 PM)Benton Wrote: I'll still be pretty surprised if Marvin isn't back next season.

I can already see the news conference couple days after season. Mike and Marvin sitting there both looking like they'd rather be driving toothpicks under their fingernails.

Mike saying "in order to maintain continuity, been to playoffs, blah, blah".  Marvin saying "we just need to play better, we've done some good things, blah, blah". 

And the 30 year plan to a playoff win is still intact.

Oh and they both get to keep making lots of $$$$$$

[THE PISTONS]

Profit > Winning a Super Bowl

I'm sure this year was as successful as any of the past 27 in that regard.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-10-2017, 08:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: 1) Earlier in the season, there was a report that Mike Brown was displeased with the team's performance, believing that there was enough talent on the roster and essentially calling out the coaches.  If there is truth to that report, and Brown believes coaching is the issue here, how does he justify bringing Marvin back?

2) Mo Egger raised an interesting point last week.  Back in 2002 when we were in the market for a new head coach, the situation was not too dissimilar from where we are now.  Fans aren't showing up, fans are fed up, the city has grown apathetic towards the team.  Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but at the time Marvin Lewis was a hot candidate for a head coaching job.  Perhaps THE hottest new candidate on the market.  And Mike Brown hired him.  He didn't hire from within the existing organization.  He brought in a hot candidate to revitalize fan interest.  So as we go into this off season under the assumption that Marvin is gone, what are the odds that Brown pursues a hot candidate once again?  Promoting Guenther isn't going to put asses back in seats.

3) None of the coaches are under contract after this season.  However, we know Brown is close friends with at least one assistant coach (Alexander).  Even if we bring in a new head coach, will he be given free reign to choose who stays and who goes, or will Brown basically tell him who's sticking around (spoiler alert: Alexander)?

I was thinking about this the other day. Marvin was a hot name in the media back then, but people forget that the Redskins hired him as a DC, passing him over as a HC to hire Steve Spurrier. Marv made a lateral move. So that just got me to thinking. Was Marv really a hot candidate to people that mattered? Why wasn't Marv hired by a team immediately after that record setting 2000 season? Or 2001? Why did he make a lateral move to the Redskins?

Just something to wonder about.

[Brimey]

1. If Mike thinks there is enough talent on this roster or even close to enough, he is deluding himself. Today was a stark reminder that we have not drafted well for 5 years. We have no depth. We have subpar starters all over the field. Maybe the staff isn't developing these guys. I don't know.

2. Who's the hottest candidate. I don't know right now. I'd actually like to see a brash upstart like Lane Kiffin. Yeah, Lane Kiffin. THAT Lane Kiffin. Dude's like that wouldn't shrug over getting poleaxed by the Steelers year after year. And he'd put a little cockiness and swagger back into this team.

3. I hope they clean house. I imagine Gunther stays however

[Pat5775]

(12-10-2017, 11:11 PM)GShake n Blake Wrote: I was thinking about this the other day. Marvin was a hot name in the media back then, but people forget that the Redskins hired him as a DC, passing him over as a HC to hire Steve Spurrier. Marv made a lateral move. So that just got me to thinking. Was Marv really a hot candidate to people that mattered? Why wasn't Marv hired by a team immediately after that record setting 2000 season? Or 2001? Why did he make a lateral move to the Redskins?

Just something to wonder about.

I'll admit, I loved the Marvin hire at the time. The 2003 offseason was by far my favorite offseason, it still is to this day. The excitement my 13 year-old self had back then has yet to be topped. We got the head coach I wanted (I remember giving my dad, a Giants fan, crap when they hired coughlin over Marvin... Whoops  ), we got the college QB I DESPERATELY wanted (the man crush I had on Carson at USC was borderline disturbing   ), people in the media and NFL fans were loving the moves we made. I thought we were building a patriots/colts-like dynasty. And I believed that until the 2007 season. 

In 2008 I completely lost faith in Marvin. Even the anamoly that was the miraculous 2009 season didn't really sway me: Marvin seemed like a man in over his head. I said after the 2009 playoff debacle against the jets that Marvin would never win a playoff game and I was mercilessly ripped apart on the old boards for it. I wasn't happy that I was right, and I still wish to this day that Marv would prove me wrong but I think it's obvious now that he won't.

Fast forward to now, I want nothing more than to see the headline "Bengals part ways with Marvin Lewis". It's so sad... If somebody had told 13 year-old me that Marvin would still be coaching in 2017 and still not have one single playoff win (let alone a super bowl or two) I would have called them batshit crazy. But the reality of the future (now present) is just that: sickening reality. 

[Bengalbug]

(12-10-2017, 11:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Profit > Winning a Super Bowl

I'm sure this year was as successful as any of the past 27 in that regard.

When you have 10,000 unsold seats for mnf bengals steelers, there is a problem. I think even mike brown knows that