Antonio Brown 10x better than AJ

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-12-2017, 10:14 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Last year before getting hurt he was 36 yards away from getting his first six years with a thousand yards, joining only Randy Moss to do so. He only needs 50 more to make it 6/7. I don't get see the slow decline you speak of. He's producing at his regular clip on an awful offense at that. Imagine if he had coaches that can actually coach an entire game. We basically give AJ half the time as AB and other WRs

Wow...a whole 1000 yards when he is, essentially, our entire offense last year because we had no rushing attack?  Do you want to list the WRs that got 1000 yards?  

I like AJ, but after his performances this year, and his antics against the Jags, I have really cooled on him.  You don't see Dalton waving the white flag, despite his star WR tipping INTs and dropping easy completions.  Nor does he lose his cool against his pathetic oline or his basic offensive schematic.  

After his rookie season, I thought he was destined to become one of the best ever.  However, now teams put a man up on him and a safety over the top to take away deep balls and his deficiencies become more apparent.  He struggles to get quick separation, and needs time to make moves at top speed.  Brown is so quick, DBs play off him and give up easy receptions then he is so elusive he makes a man miss and turns a five yard pass in to a 20 yard gain.  AJ rarely makes a defender miss a tackle and generates a lot of yards after the catch.  

He is a great WR in terms of his ability to track a ball and has ballerina feet along the sidelines, but he is not nearly as phone-booth quick as the top WRs of today and he needs time to generate separation.  Which, at least he can do if given a little time....more so than the likes of Lafell. 

I think Green could have a rebirth if Ross is healthy next year and becomes the receiver many of us envisioned.  Ditto a rotation at X with Core and Malone should be in rotation with AJ.  I think our slot is set with Erickson and Boyd.  Replace Lafell with Core and Ross and I think this offense could begin to take shape.  Everyone's favorite whipping boys, the offensive line, has actually played better of late.  The WRs just have trouble getting open which is a function of their lack of ability and predictable scheme.  

[Hoofhearted]

(12-13-2017, 09:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow...a whole 1000 yards when he is, essentially, our entire offense last year because we had no rushing attack?  Do you want to list the WRs that got 1000 yards?  

I like AJ, but after his performances this year, and his antics against the Jags, I have really cooled on him.  You don't see Dalton waving the white flag, despite his star WR tipping INTs and dropping easy completions.  Nor does he lose his cool against his pathetic oline or his basic offensive schematic.  

After his rookie season, I thought he was destined to become one of the best ever.  However, now teams put a man up on him and a safety over the top to take away deep balls and his deficiencies become more apparent.  He struggles to get quick separation, and needs time to make moves at top speed.  Brown is so quick, DBs play off him and give up easy receptions then he is so elusive he makes a man miss and turns a five yard pass in to a 20 yard gain.  AJ rarely makes a defender miss a tackle and generates a lot of yards after the catch.  

He is a great WR in terms of his ability to track a ball and has ballerina feet along the sidelines, but he is not nearly as phone-booth quick as the top WRs of today and he needs time to generate separation.  Which, at least he can do if given a little time....more so than the likes of Lafell. 

I think Green could have a rebirth if Ross is healthy next year and becomes the receiver many of us envisioned.  Ditto a rotation at X with Core and Malone should be in rotation with AJ.  I think our slot is set with Erickson and Boyd.  Replace Lafell with Core and Ross and I think this offense could begin to take shape.  Everyone's favorite whipping boys, the offensive line, has actually played better of late.  The WRs just have trouble getting open which is a function of their lack of ability and predictable scheme.  

So quite a few WRs (more than I initially thought would be) get a 1,000 yards so that makes it "meh"? How about ranking 8th in total receiving yards of current, active WRs? I get what you're saying, tho. He doesn't put up other worldly numbers like AB and Fitz used to. I don't know how much of that you can pin on "the system" (Bengals, well, being the Bengals). But he's the model for consistency. Dude is a shoe in for a thousand yards and 6-10 TDs a year. And consistency is huge in this league.

Personally, I didn't mind what he did in the Jags game. Dude got in his grill and he wasn't having it. Sometimes you have to send that message. Some of his other antics I am not to found of, but I think we can probably chalk that up to what happens when you're losing. I hope he learns from that.

I see AJs main problem is against physical DBs that press the line of scrimmage and his catching at times (he has a catch percentage of 59%..compared to Sanu's 61, Marvins 62.3, and Andrew Hawkins 65%). His speed has never been in question IMO. Clearly he's not faster than AB, but that's why AB is a GOAT. I guess I just don't like down-playing a good player because they're not the best of the best (not saying you are...but thread title is totally down-playing his ability). 

AJ will go down as the Bengals most prolific WR in Bengals history, and it's really no contest outside of Ocho's records.

[PDub80]

More like AB's QB is 10X better than AJ's.

AJ would be killing the league stat wise if AD had anything but a noodle and a blindfold on deep routes. He's hit fans in the stands more than his own teammates. AD was junk this season. Total trash against anyone but the Browns. The ball that fell 10' off of Malone on a deep route where he beat 2 Bears DBs for a TD was the perfect example of how AD sucks at anything but intermediate, high school passes. AD's been a bum for his WRs this season. I don't blame them for mailing it in. Why should they have to continue to perform at an elite level when AD just gets to stink it up?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-13-2017, 09:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow...a whole 1000 yards when he is, essentially, our entire offense last year because we had no rushing attack?  Do you want to list the WRs that got 1000 yards?  

I like AJ, but after his performances this year, and his antics against the Jags, I have really cooled on him.  You don't see Dalton waving the white flag, despite his star WR tipping INTs and dropping easy completions.  Nor does he lose his cool against his pathetic oline or his basic offensive schematic. 

After his rookie season, I thought he was destined to become one of the best ever.  However, now teams put a man up on him and a safety over the top to take away deep balls and his deficiencies become more apparent.  He struggles to get quick separation, and needs time to make moves at top speed.  Brown is so quick, DBs play off him and give up easy receptions then he is so elusive he makes a man miss and turns a five yard pass in to a 20 yard gain.  AJ rarely makes a defender miss a tackle and generates a lot of yards after the catch.  

He is a great WR in terms of his ability to track a ball and has ballerina feet along the sidelines, but he is not nearly as phone-booth quick as the top WRs of today and he needs time to generate separation.  Which, at least he can do if given a little time....more so than the likes of Lafell. 

I think Green could have a rebirth if Ross is healthy next year and becomes the receiver many of us envisioned.  Ditto a rotation at X with Core and Malone should be in rotation with AJ.  I think our slot is set with Erickson and Boyd.  Replace Lafell with Core and Ross and I think this offense could begin to take shape.  Everyone's favorite whipping boys, the offensive line, has actually played better of late.  The WRs just have trouble getting open which is a function of their lack of ability and predictable scheme.  

I think a lot of us wish he would...

[Shake n Blake]

(12-12-2017, 12:54 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Why does Tate's success  take away from Jones success? I don't get this both are good players and both are different style of players that fit each other perfectly. Serious question why dont you like Marvin Jones?He is a good player and he was productive for us.

(12-12-2017, 11:06 AM)jj22 Wrote: Based off of Detroit fans feedback, he's been a huge disappointment as a #1 receiver (which he was signed to be), and very inconsistent. He can get 400 yards in 3 games then disappear for the following 8 games.

What jj22 said. I don't hate Marvin Jones at all, just feel he's a bit overrated on here. He had 2 good seasons as a Bengal, and neither were all that impressive. He had a tendency of disappearing for stretches, and he's carried that over to Detroit. He was signed to be a #1 and he hasn't lived up the the billing. 

He has 54 yards or less in 14 games (out of 28) as a Lion. 
He has 5 games with 1 catch.
He had 9 games in a row without a TD.

In his first 4 games in Detroit, he had 23 catches for 482 yards and 2 TDs 
Next 16 games? 46 catches for 632 yards and 4 TDs 
Last 8 games? 37 catches for 701 yards and 6 TDs 

[TheUberHuber]

How does this thread have 6 pages?

Is aJ green 10x worse than ab?

NO.
/END THREAD.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Saw this thread days ago and thought it would of died immediately.

Didn't so here i am being a doosh and keeping it going lol

BTW, AJ caught the pass that should of beat AB and the Steelers in the Playoffs.

Anyone praising the diva Antonio Brown and hating on our classy receiver should blow.

[CincinnatiKid]

(12-13-2017, 04:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Saw this thread days ago and thought it would of died immediately.

Didn't so here i am being a doosh and keeping it going lol

BTW, AJ caught the pass that should of beat AB and the Steelers in the Playoffs.

Anyone praising the diva Antonio Brown and hating on our classy receiver should blow.

I think some people like myself witnessed the game against Chicago, saw AJs performance and then had a moment of clarity that AJ is not as elite as we would like to think he is. Being elite means being clutch and he simply has not been.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-13-2017, 10:42 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: I think some people like myself witnessed the game against Chicago, saw AJs performance and then had a moment of clarity that AJ is not as elite as we would like to think he is. Being elite means being clutch and he simply has not been.

So if there’s no holding penalty on Gio vs the Steelers and Green catches his 3rd TD of the game to beat one of the hottest teams in the league on MNF that wouldn’t fall under your definition of “clutch.” Got it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-13-2017, 10:37 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: So quite a few WRs (more than I initially thought would be) get a 1,000 yards so that makes it "meh"? How about ranking 8th in total receiving yards of current, active WRs? I get what you're saying, tho. He doesn't put up other worldly numbers like AB and Fitz used to. I don't know how much of that you can pin on "the system" (Bengals, well, being the Bengals). But he's the model for consistency. Dude is a shoe in for a thousand yards and 6-10 TDs a year. And consistency is huge in this league.

Personally, I didn't mind what he did in the Jags game. Dude got in his grill and he wasn't having it. Sometimes you have to send that message. Some of his other antics I am not to found of, but I think we can probably chalk that up to what happens when you're losing. I hope he learns from that.

I see AJs main problem is against physical DBs that press the line of scrimmage and his catching at times (he has a catch percentage of 59%..compared to Sanu's 61, Marvins 62.3, and Andrew Hawkins 65%). His speed has never been in question IMO. Clearly he's not faster than AB, but that's why AB is a GOAT. I guess I just don't like down-playing a good player because they're not the best of the best (not saying you are...but thread title is totally down-playing his ability). 

AJ will go down as the Bengals most prolific WR in Bengals history, and it's really no contest outside of Ocho's records.

I think Chad in his prime was better.  What AJ needs, desperately, is for Ross to get up to speed (pardon the pun) quickly and Core and Malone to continue to develop.  He is like Fitzgerald before John Brown (I think that is his name) started playing for AZ.  He was their lone threat and his numbers paid for it.  He isn't the phone booth quick guy, but is sure-handed and a nightmare if given time.  When Brown took the proverbial top off the defense, Fitz soared again. 

Even Antonio Brown had a decline when he lost his vertical threat, but now with the other weapons around him, he is a menace. 

One situation that is eerily similar to the Bengals is the NY Giants.  They had a very talented trio coming in to the year with OBJ, Shepard, and Brandon Marshall.  Looked really good as matchups coming in to the season, but a lack of creativity on offense, poor offensive line play, and a lack of a running game doomed them...that, and a ton of injuries.  

I think the Bengals brass needs to reevaluate where they spend the dollars and get more 3rd and 4th round weapons on offense, but focus on the offensive line.  Ditto the defensive line.  Looks as though we are in the running again for DT, although I like our young DEs (wish they would move MJ inside on passing downs for good and play Lawson and Willis more).

If Ross, Core, and Malone get the opportunity next year and make the most of it, AJ will be back to top tier status.  I just hope we address the line and get an OC with more creativity.  

[Gwerian]

Ab is not any better than AJ. And Ben is an average qb AT BEST. Their oline is middling. The only reason the Steelers do well is they play dirty and get away with everything.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-13-2017, 10:42 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: I think some people like myself witnessed the game against Chicago, saw AJs performance and then had a moment of clarity that AJ is not as elite as we would like to think he is.  Being elite means being clutch and he simply has not been.

As Nicomo here says, i guess 3 TD's isn't good enough for you, he should of had 3 TD's in that game.

It was raining and even AJ says there is no excuse for dropping those balls. Dude is complete class.

Don't care what you say, AJ Green is an elite WR and everyone in the NFL would agree with this.

(12-14-2017, 04:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So if there’s no holding penalty on Gio vs the Steelers and Green catches his 3rd TD of the game to beat one of the hottest teams in the league on MNF that wouldn’t fall under your definition of “clutch.” Got it.

Yep, not good enough. AB gets away with pushing off all the time too, he wouldn't get away with that here.

If AJ was a Steeler he would be leading the league in yards every year just like AB is.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

AJ 1,000x better than Antonio Brown as a human being.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-13-2017, 09:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You don't see Dalton waving the white flag,

To be fair, I consider Dalton throwing the ball away on 4th down a few games ago to be him giving up or waving the white flag.

(12-13-2017, 12:28 PM)PDub80 Wrote: More like AB's QB is 10X better than AJ's.

AJ would be killing the league stat wise if AD had anything but a noodle and a blindfold on deep routes. He's hit fans in the stands more than his own teammates. AD was junk this season. Total trash against anyone but the Browns. The ball that fell 10' off of Malone on a deep route where he beat 2 Bears DBs for a TD was the perfect example of how AD sucks at anything but intermediate, high school passes. AD's been a bum for his WRs this season. I don't blame them for mailing it in. Why should they have to continue to perform at an elite level when AD just gets to stink it up?

[reuben.ahmed]

If Andy told AJ this after his catch and fumble in bounds, I bet AJ would have gone on a tear.

[bengalhoel]

(12-13-2017, 09:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow...a whole 1000 yards when he is, essentially, our entire offense last year because we had no rushing attack?  Do you want to list the WRs that got 1000 yards?  

I like AJ, but after his performances this year, and his antics against the Jags, I have really cooled on him.  You don't see Dalton waving the white flag, despite his star WR tipping INTs and dropping easy completions.  Nor does he lose his cool against his pathetic oline or his basic offensive schematic.  

After his rookie season, I thought he was destined to become one of the best ever.  However, now teams put a man up on him and a safety over the top to take away deep balls and his deficiencies become more apparent.  He struggles to get quick separation, and needs time to make moves at top speed.  Brown is so quick, DBs play off him and give up easy receptions then he is so elusive he makes a man miss and turns a five yard pass in to a 20 yard gain.  AJ rarely makes a defender miss a tackle and generates a lot of yards after the catch.  

He is a great WR in terms of his ability to track a ball and has ballerina feet along the sidelines, but he is not nearly as phone-booth quick as the top WRs of today and he needs time to generate separation.  Which, at least he can do if given a little time....more so than the likes of Lafell. 

I think Green could have a rebirth if Ross is healthy next year and becomes the receiver many of us envisioned.  Ditto a rotation at X with Core and Malone should be in rotation with AJ.  I think our slot is set with Erickson and Boyd.  Replace Lafell with Core and Ross and I think this offense could begin to take shape.  Everyone's favorite whipping boys, the offensive line, has actually played better of late.  The WRs just have trouble getting open which is a function of their lack of ability and predictable scheme.  

Do you think A.J. Green would be better if we had a HOF QB, decent line,  LeVeon Bell and an O.C that knew how to properly use #2 receivers? 

If Antonio Brown was in this system he would be way worse. He would be whining and  crying when he doesnt get the ball thrown at him 20 times a game. He is great for how the Steelers use him, but you can not say he is a better receiver than A.J Green.

[Interceptor]

(12-14-2017, 03:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: AJ 1,000x better than Antonio Brown as a human being.

Yeah, but... But.... But Brown is a better douche bag.... Oh wait, which one am I talking about?

[jj22]

(12-14-2017, 04:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So if there’s no holding penalty on Gio vs the Steelers and Green catches his 3rd TD of the game to beat one of the hottest teams in the league on MNF that wouldn’t fall under your definition of “clutch.” Got it.

Not to pick a fight about AJ again, but that play was in the 3rd q. We need our stars, our elite players to step up in the 4th. Deep in the forth. AJ came thru in the playoff game. But we don't see that enough when you take the full career into consideration.

No one is denying he'll blow up somewhere else (media acting like they never heard of Big Whit before, who they ignored for years during his prime). So some of this is on the Organization.

But can we claim any of our players are elite if they cant make big time plays late in big games.

[John Shaft]

(12-11-2017, 02:05 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'd wager that the Steelers O-Line is 10x better than the Bengals'

I'd wager that Roethlisberger is 10x better than Dalton (no matter how painful to admit)

I'd wager that the Steelers' coaching is 10x better than the Bengals'

But I wouldn't wager that Brown is 10x better than AJ. Brown is the best WR in the league, but AJ's biggest problems are coaching and QB play, the latter being heavily influenced by the O-line play.

This reply is spot on !

[BFritz21]

Didn't look through every post, so this might have been said already, and I was wondering why AB is so good.

I don't think he's better than AJ, but he's definitely more productive, which isn't AJ's fault, and here's my reasoning:

-Brown has Bell running the ball, which teams load the box and still can't stop Bell, so it definitely takes pressure off of Brown more than ANYONE EVER has for AJ.

-Bryant has JuJu, Bryant, and even James drawing attention. AJ has no one anywhere near that caliber to draw attention off of him. I know you'll say that's irrelevant because he still gets doubled, but it plays a part, especially because AJ gets doubled, too.

-the Steelers line gives Ben all day to let Brown run and get open, and, in a related note, Ben can extend plays and wait for Brown to get open.

Brown's not better than AJ, he's just in a better situation.