Big Line vs Athletic Line

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-28-2017, 09:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What are some Lineman in the draft that fit this scheme RRL?

I know Connor Williams and Orlando Brown are pretty heavy footed as far as OT's go. McGlinchey seems to have lighter feet.

Saw Billy Price make some hell of good blocks down the field this year in the run game but i also really like Ragnow at Center.

Isaiah Wynn the Guard out of Georgia sure fits the bill you are speaking of from the little i know so far.

I've honestly stopped watching for now. Gonna wait and see what happens after the season. 
Price is good. 
Wynn is good. Could in theory play 4 spots on the OL. 
Williams is a guard but even then his feet are heavy. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2017, 09:59 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I've honestly stopped watching for now. Gonna wait and see what happens after the season. 
Price is good. 
Wynn is good. Could in theory play 4 spots on the OL. 
Williams is a guard but even then his feet are heavy. 

Cool, thanks for getting back to my post as you really know your stuff on O-line.

I am still gonna watch some tape on all these guys.

Lot of good ones in this draft that would really help this team out. :andy:

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-29-2017, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool, thanks for getting back to my post as you really know your stuff on O-line.

I am still gonna watch some tape on all these guys.

Lot of good ones in this draft that would really help this team out. :andy:

No problem. 
It all comes down to what the next coach wants to do and what they are looking for.

The tackle class is a bit iffy and you're gonna need some long shots to pan out, like the kid from Humbolt State. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-29-2017, 03:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No problem. 
It all comes down to what the next coach wants to do and what they are looking for.

The tackle class is a bit iffy and you're gonna need some long shots to pan out, like the kid from Humbolt State. 

Yeah, it will definately depend on the next coach no doubt.

Have to check out that kid. Thanks again.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-27-2017, 07:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How about we just go with Aggressive OL, as opposed to "Finesse"?

I heard a very successful NFL GM speaking to a group of "leaders" and he had a very simple stance on drafting linemen in the NFL.  He said that there just aren't many people that live to be in the trenches.  He talked about all the measurables that go in to selecting players, but he said a great deal of stock goes in to the mental aptitude of the player.  Tim Krumrie comes to mind.  Ced and Fisher look to me to be guys that would rather be in a wide-open system (no surprise, as that is what they both came from) where they are running around and hitting smaller guys in space.  

I hate to make blanket statements, but I would not be drafting offensive linemen from a lot of these offenses.  Give me a Wisconsin or Stanford linemen over just about any other.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-27-2017, 11:46 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Gimme both.

Let's start with 2 guys in the draft:

Quentin Nelson, athletic and big - 325lbs
Billy Price, athletic and big - 315lbs

We'll be running the ball in no time.

Love the idea of Price, but we should give Westerman or Redmond the spot over the hapless Hopkins and save that draft pick for an offensive tackle.  That should likely be our first round pick.  

Most teams that spend high picks on cornerbacks put them on an island.  We don't do that, so I sure as hell wouldn't draft another in Rd 1.  We need major help at the safety and LB position on defense.  And we need a big body (that dude from Washington that made a VERY athletic tackle on special teams last night comes to mind...350lbs and FAST!).

I would invest early on the OT or C (if they slide a little and are able to get Price) and then build in the middle of the defense.  Our safeties have been a major disappointment.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2017, 10:28 AM)Wyche Wrote: You want Nasty Nate Livings?  Is that you Piano Man?

Seriously though, if I was building a line, I would want big with an attitude of a grizzly bear if I'm stocking an oline.  You do need some athleticism to be able to handle the speed edge rushers in today's game, but give me a Butterbean with the footwork of Sugar Ray Leonard at OT....and a buncha bar room brawlers in the middle.

I think this is the biggest weakness on the entire team.  Boling is serviceable, but the Center and RG position were the worst in the NFL.  If those two positions are improved, this line looks a whole lot better because as much as we may not want to acknowledge it, the team struggled to run the ball with Whit and Zeitler.  Zeitler was a good pass protector, but just ok as a run blocker.  I also think the scheme had a LOT to do with it.  Damn slide blocking scheme that never creates a cut back lane.  When they went power, they did better.  For whatever reason, they didn't do that as often.  

My point is that Redmond and Westermen showed an improvement of over 100% over the PFF ranking of Hopkins and that was just the stats.  The naked eye was night and day different.  Today should convince the Bengals that they are the way to go next year if they can create against the rat defense.  I mean, does everyone think it is because the Lions suck that Gio had the best rushing day by a RB all year?  And his off-the-street running mate contributed also?  

Westerman should get a shot at Center and Redmond should be our RG.  That would allow them to draft a RT that is a mammoth of a man in Rd 2 after getting a playmaking Safety or LB in Rd 1...also provides more flexibility of sliding if some teams are pursuing a QB.  

[*Synric*]

(12-31-2017, 01:34 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:
My point is that Redmond and Westermen showed an improvement of over 100% over the PFF ranking of Hopkins and that was just the stats.  The naked eye was night and day different.  Today should convince the Bengals that they are the way to go next year if they can create against the rat defense.  I mean, does everyone think it is because the Lions suck that Gio had the best rushing day by a RB all year?  And his off-the-street running mate contributed also?  

Actually when the Bengals started running better a huge reason was Trey Hopkins. Yes his yearly over all average still looks bad but since the Browns game he has been averaging in the high 70s low 80s according to PFF. Bodine and Ogbuehi on the other hand are still rating low. Andre Smith has been inconsistent. 

I'm not saying they shouldn't bring in some competition they should but Hopkins may deserve another shot.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2017, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The FO could of made the right decision in the last Offseason and the O-line could of looked like this...

Whitworth - Boling - Westerman - Redmond - Andre Smith

You are dead on in all your statements, but I focused on this because it is "water under the bridge".

We CAN go with something like this next year:

Ogbuehi- Boling- Westerman- Redmond- Draft pick (likely a second rounder?)

Ogbuehi had improved to the level of serviceable, but the middle of the line caused even more problems.  People seem to forget that when you can't run the ball, it makes it easier for the defense (especially the ends) to just tee off and pass rush.  If we improve the middle, we improve the outside.  

As for the RT next year?  A mammoth of a man.  Another Willie Anderson, please.  You could run right in short yardage and stop having to bootleg on 3rd and 1.  Maybe sign Andre to another one year "if you get fat we cut you" contract for depth and stability.  

I don't think the Bengals will give up on Ogbuehi just yet.  They will, hopefully, see more of the same from last week against the Lions from Redmond and Westerman and spend the offseason prepping them as the future starters.  Bodine and Hopkins were pathetic all season.  The fastest way to improve this team is the interior of the offensive line.  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-31-2017, 01:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Love the idea of Price, but we should give Westerman or Redmond the spot over the hapless Hopkins and save that draft pick for an offensive tackle.  That should likely be our first round pick.  

Most teams that spend high picks on cornerbacks put them on an island.  We don't do that, so I sure as hell wouldn't draft another in Rd 1.  We need major help at the safety and LB position on defense.  And we need a big body (that dude from Washington that made a VERY athletic tackle on special teams last night comes to mind...350lbs and FAST!).

I would invest early on the OT or C (if they slide a little and are able to get Price) and then build in the middle of the defense.  Our safeties have been a major disappointment.  

Vita Vea, I believe his name is.  And yes, that was a rather impressive play that he made.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(12-31-2017, 01:56 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ogbuehi had improved to the level of serviceable, but the middle of the line caused even more problems.  People seem to forget that when you can't run the ball, it makes it easier for the defense (especially the ends) to just tee off and pass rush.  If we improve the middle, we improve the outside.  

As for the RT next year?  A mammoth of a man.  Another Willie Anderson, please.  You could run right in short yardage and stop having to bootleg on 3rd and 1.  Maybe sign Andre to another one year "if you get fat we cut you" contract for depth and stability.  

I don't think the Bengals will give up on Ogbuehi just yet.  They will, hopefully, see more of the same from last week against the Lions from Redmond and Westerman and spend the offseason prepping them as the future starters.  Bodine and Hopkins were pathetic all season.  The fastest way to improve this team is the interior of the offensive line.  

I just don't see it with Ogbuehi.  He seems to flat out give up on plays.  He fails the eyeball test be it run or pass.  I just don't think that he'll ever hack it as a good starter. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-31-2017, 01:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Actually when the Bengals started running better a huge reason was Trey Hopkins. Yes his yearly over all average still looks bad but since the Browns game he has been averaging in the high 70s low 80s according to PFF. Bodine and Ogbuehi on the other hand are still rating low. Andre Smith has been inconsistent. 

I'm not saying they shouldn't bring in some competition they should but Hopkins may deserve another shot.

Last ranking I saw showed him as dead last in RGs.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-31-2017, 03:40 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I just don't see it with Ogbuehi.  He seems to flat out give up on plays.  He fails the eyeball test be it run or pass.  I just don't think that he'll ever hack it as a good starter. 

Given that he has cumulatively started for two years now, I agree with your sentiment.  However, I don't think they give up on him just yet.  Maybe a new coaching staff can actually start instructing the guy how to play better.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-31-2017, 05:58 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Given that he has cumulatively started for two years now, I agree with your sentiment.  However, I don't think they give up on him just yet.  Maybe a new coaching staff can actually start instructing the guy how to play better.

If a guy gets better in the NFL after a coaching change, it's usually just because a coach has a better understanding of how that player works better. 
Example is Goff in LA. Is he magically better? No not really but Fisher is actually bad and McVay is actually good and knows how to use players. Goff has a clear set of skills.
McVay maximizes those. 

What set of skills does Ogbuehi have that are pertinent to OL play that a new coach could build off of? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-31-2017, 06:02 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If a guy gets better in the NFL after a coaching change, it's usually just because a coach has a better understanding of how that player works better. 
Example is Goff in LA. Is he magically better? No not really but Fisher is actually bad and McVay is actually good and knows how to use players. Goff has a clear set of skills.
McVay maximizes those. 

What set of skills does Ogbuehi have that are pertinent to OL play that a new coach could build off of? 

He has all the physical traits (long arms, strength, etc) and the agility to be picked in the first round of the NFL draft, despite being injured.  We will see if the next coaches (hopefully Alexander is sent packing too, but I doubt it...probably works for oreos) can get more out of him with a less predictable rushing attack and a faster paced offense.  

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-31-2017, 06:09 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He has all the physical traits (long arms, strength, etc) and the agility to be picked in the first round of the NFL draft, despite being injured.  We will see if the next coaches (hopefully Alexander is sent packing too, but I doubt it...probably works for oreos) can get more out of him with a less predictable rushing attack and a faster paced offense.  

Strength? Not sure we are talking about the same guy
Long arms sure. But with slow wide hands they're useless. 
He's athletic but slow to diagnose and take advantage of that.