Bengals Did Improve To 7-9 and 7-7 with Lasor

[Big Boss]

Lazor had 14 games to start implementing his own ideas and philosophies, and we still fielded one of the worst second-half offenses I've ever seen. Nothing I have seen from him makes me think the team should offer him a new contract. There's a better OC out there. Preferably somebody who knows how to gets all of our playmakers on the field and actually get them the ball.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-01-2018, 04:23 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The fact is that these last 2 wins may have given us more of Marvin. He looked worn and defeated several times this year. He won’t let the best players play until others get hurt, it’s way past time for new philosophies around here.

Agreed

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-01-2018, 04:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Bengals are 9-18-1 against teams not from Cleveland over the last two years. 

Can we please stop using the whole 'the Browns would love to be the Bengals' thing?

Not trying to be an ass Kevin, but shouldn't the barometer be how we stack up in comparison to the best teams, and not how much better we are than the worst team in football?

Going a step further back this team has 12 wins against teams not named Cleveland since mid 2015, a record of 12-22-1.

Twelve wins in 2 and 1/2 years against teams other than Cleveland ! And five of these 12 wins have been against the bottom 3rd of the league teams for that season. The 5-11 49ers and 5-11 Ravens in 2015.

The 5-11 Jets in 2016, and the 4-12 Colts and 5-11 Broncos in 2017.

So out of 40 games over the last 2 and 1/2 seasons we have exactly 7 wins against the mediocre teams of the league.

To try and spin this into being a team on the cusp is one giant grasp at a straw. Sorry Kevin

[Bengalholic]

(01-02-2018, 11:09 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Going a step further back this team has 12 wins against teams not named Cleveland since mid 2015, a record of 12-22-1.

Twelve wins in 2 and 1/2 years against teams other than Cleveland ! And five of these 12 wins have been against the bottom 3rd of the league teams for that season. The 5-11 49ers and 5-11 Ravens in 2015.

The 5-11 Jets in 2016, and the 4-12 Colts and 5-11 Broncos in 2017.

So out of 40 games over the last 2 and 1/2 seasons we have exactly 7 wins against the mediocre teams of the league.

To try and spin this into being a team on the cusp is one giant grasp at a straw. Sorry Kevin

Yep, they just haven't been very good for awhile now. Sure, there's a nice win here or there, but outside of beating up on the Brownies...they've struggled.

[*ochocincos*]

Win-loss record should not indicative of how good/bad a coordinator is necessarily.
Heck, the Patriots ended up going to the Super Bowl some time ago with one of the worst ranked defenses in the NFL.
Just because they had a really good record and went to the Super Bowl, does that mean the defense (including the coordinator) doesn't need to be improved? I'd say no. There's clearly room for improvement.

I apply the same philosophy to the Bengals in this case. Yes, the Bengals went 7-7 with Lazor as OC.
However, they were still one of the worst offensive teams in the league during that span.
It wasn't until injuries happened and the Bengals started being forced to use some of their depth players that many of us have clamored for them to use did the offense (and defense) start making improvements in certain areas.

Since we're talking about the offense in this thread, Dalton had five games with 154 or fewer passing yards (MIN, CHI, DEN, JAX, PIT #1).
Only one game higher than 300 yards, which was against Buffalo.
And even after Lazor took over as OC, there still were far too many passes (and screens/slants specifically) to Brandon LaFell that resulted in very little, zero, and even sometimes negative yards.
And they still really struggle in the second half of games.
How much is Lazor's fault vs Marvin's is something we'll never know, but I'm inclined to think both.

The offensive improvement really has just been the running game, and it's primarily seen improvement with a change in OL players, especially the last two weeks.
I've always thought that Dalton is good enough to help win games if he has a strong running game. And this team has good enough RBs to be able to do well with a quality run-blocking OL. Add a couple new OL in the offseason that excel at run blocking and I think this offense could be vastly improved.

If the Bengals are to keep Lazor as OC, they need to do the above as well as get WRs that are better at getting YAC. That's assuming Lazor sticks with his short passing game, but that might have just been implemented by him this year out of necessity due to such piss poor OL performance.

[Devils Advocate]

Subtle but significant; did they ‘improve’ because of Lasor, or because Zampese was fired?

Meaning, I believe Zampese was that bad that anyone that replaced him would be an improvement.

If Marvin returns, the entire offensive coaching staff needs replaced.

[kevin]

(01-02-2018, 09:51 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Lazor had 14 games to start implementing his own ideas and philosophies, and we still fielded one of the worst second-half offenses I've ever seen.  Nothing I have seen from him makes me think the team should offer him a new contract.  There's a better OC out there.  Preferably somebody who knows how to gets all of our playmakers on the field and actually get them the ball.

No, what your forgetting or failing to see is the Bengals came into the season with the worst offensive line in NFL per all the media preseason scouting of teams.  Losing Zeitler AND Whitworth, of course they were now considered the worst O Line in NFL.  The Bengals had NO BLOCKING in 4 preseason games and first 2 games of season and not one touchdown. 

Lasor had to come onto a team with worst O Line in NFL and no touchdowns in first 2 games.  Dalton was rattled. AJ Green was rattled.  The offense wasn't very good in 2016 either in that 6 win season. .....Lasor had no training camp or preseason to put in a playbook or work with any of these players. He had never been on the Bengals one day in his life. 

Lasor said his first goal coming in after season had started was to rebuild Andy Dalton's shattered confidence and AJ Green's also.  Lasor his first job was to rebuild their confidence in themselves.  I would say going 7-7, he did a good job.  There were just games the O Line he inherited got blown up and destroyed.  Pittsburg and Jacksonville went through our O Line to where no playbook ever could work.  The X's and O's do not work without blocking, and we have Mike Brown to thank for the off season O Line players lost, not Lasor.   Minnesota also destroyed our O Line.  It's sad to say that the not very good Colts dominated our O Line.  We won thanks to our defense against Colts and no Luck. 

So the man comes in after season started to a team with worst O Line in NFL.  Teams like Pittsburg, Jacksonville, Minnesota just destroy the O Line as Baltimore and Houston had before he got here.  Lasor inherited Mike Brown not paying Zeitler and Whitworth and no blocking.  Lasor did restore confidence in Andy Dalton and Dalton put up good numbers under Lasor, except for when the O Line was getting Dalton killed every play against Jacksonville, Minnesota and Pittsburg.   Lasor kept trying to adjust the O Line.  They even brought back Winston which I mentioned on these boards and posters said Bengals should not do. Lasor brought back Winston and at end of season had Bolling moved from guard to left tackle.  So he had the guts to bench top picks Ogbuhei and Fisher who haven't lived up to the Cincy Hype.  

I completely disagree with you and I say Lasor has shown every reason to be back in 2018.  When he took over Bengals also looked like a team headed for 0-16.  Lasor going 7-7 with the NFL team with THE WORST O Line in NFL is amazing. Also add in injuries to Eifert, Ross, Hill, Mixon, Kroft...Not only was there no blocking, but this team was weak at TE, WR and RB most of season.  Often only Bernard was healthy at RB.  Eifert and Ross took the season off. 

I saw Lasor take over one of worst offenses ever in NFL history, and he did improve this offense enough to go 7-7.   For that he should be back.  I saw things in Lasor that I liked more than Zampese or Hue Jackson.  I was not and will never be a fan of the Hue Jackson split O Line.  I never want to see Hue on Bengals again.  I felt Lasor was as good as Gruden if not better.  I liked what Lasor was doing and NFL TV announcers such as Tony Romo said they liked what Lasor was doing.  

So for you experts that think Lasor isn't good enough for Bengals, I say Bengals were lucky to get this guy and if Mike Brown doesn't hang on to him it only shows how completely stupid Mike Brown and Cincinnati are. 

Your complaint about second half offense again goes back to Mike Brown going cheap and going into season with worst O Line in NFL. You know who dominates in second half, good O Lines. You know who wins Super Bowls, good O Lines. What did Bengals have in their 2 Super Bowl years, good O Lines. .....To the posters that say Bengals still need a lot of off season improvement at O Line, you are on it....I agree with Tony Romo that Lasor did a lot of good things and it shows in team going from 0-2 to 7-7 when we had one of worst offenses ever at 0-2. ...Did you think someone could come in a take that stinking, sorry, lousy, awful excrement at 0-2 and take it to the Play-Offs....Lazor did a great job with a lousy team, that's right, a lousy Mike Brown going cheap team...I would love to see Lasor back with a better O Line and better O players in 2018. I like his system. I don't think much of some of the Bengals players, but I think Lasor got the most out of them.