Jon Kitna interviewing for QB coach

[HarleyDog]

(01-13-2018, 11:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I remember:

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton
Derick Carr
Marcus Mariota
Philip Rivers
Ben Rothlesberger
Alex Smith
Jameis Winston
Dak Prescott
Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins

I will admit I was wrong on Carr and Mariota as I thought each would do much better this year.

Now I think the real hoot would be if the top 10 folks listed 7 of those that they thought Andy was better than.  

Why 7? You scoured the list picking those you couldn’t defend didn’t you?

[*bfine32*]

(01-13-2018, 11:10 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Why 7? You scoured the list picking those you couldn’t defend didn’t you?

Because removing 7 makes Andy top 10. I can probably find the list if you want.  

[BengalsRocker]

I don't understand how all of these stats equal up to getting a different QB?

Unless you want to watch another team you're stuck with Dalton.

Some people will support him. Some will not.

He's just as Bfine says. Average in level of play. Once in a while above that.

People can skew those stats all they want. He is what he is.

I just don't trust this organization to quickly replace our QB anyway.

Do you???

They got lucky that Dalton wasn't a complete flop.

I personally wanted them to draft Ryan Mallett for his great arm.

That would have been a huge mistake.

[HarleyDog]

(01-13-2018, 11:36 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: They got lucky that Dalton wasn't a complete flop.

Without AJ, he might have been.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-13-2018, 11:41 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Without AJ, he might have been.

True dat.

It might have been a waaay different story.

Without AJ.  He might have had a very rude awakening to the NFL.

The way they've been doing with WRs as of late we could be in for some real hard times if Green is out.

He was able to make good use of Kroft in Eifert's absence.  Certainly not equal.

Let's hope they get this O-Line sorted out and some semblance of a run attack to help.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-13-2018, 11:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I remember:

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton
Derick Carr
Marcus Mariota
Philip Rivers
Ben Rothlesberger
Alex Smith
Jameis Winston
Dak Prescott
Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins

I will admit I was wrong on Carr and Mariota as I thought each would do much better this year.

Now I think the real hoot would be if the top 10 folks listed 7 of those that they thought Andy was better than.  

QB rankings are fluid and change year to year. That's why writers make new lists every year. I had Dalton around 10th after 2015. As of now I'd put him anywhere from 11th to 15th.

Of the guys on your list, I'd easily take him over Mariota, who regressed hard this year and threw more picks than TDs. I'd probably take him over Dak, Cam and Winston as well. I think if all things were equal, he'd play just as well as a Derek Carr.

It's odd that you're basing so much on one season when Mariota and Cam were so awful this year, yet you still have those guys ahead of Andy. Dak had an identical passer rating with much better circumstances. Cam has been bad for 2 straight years now, with passer ratings below Andy's career low.

So...If you have Andy so low primarily based on this year's performance, why do you have him below guys who have been equally bad or worse?

[Shake n Blake]

(01-13-2018, 11:41 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Without AJ, he might have been.

We've seen plenty of Andy sans AJ, and he's held up just fine. Very small drop in passer rating with a winning record.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2018, 11:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I remember:

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton
Derick Carr
Marcus Mariota
Philip Rivers
Ben Rothlesberger
Alex Smith
Jameis Winston
Dak Prescott
Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins

I will admit I was wrong on Carr and Mariota as I thought each would do much better this year.

Now I think the real hoot would be if the top 10 folks listed 7 of those that they thought Andy was better than.  

The only one on that list I’d say Andy is clearly better than is Mariota.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 02:45 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: QB rankings are fluid and change year to year. That's why writers make new lists every year. I had Dalton around 10th after 2015. As of now I'd put him anywhere from 11th to 15th.

Of the guys on your list, I'd easily take him over Mariota, who regressed hard this year and threw more picks than TDs. I'd probably take him over Dak, Cam and Winston as well. I think if all things were equal, he'd play just as well as a Derek Carr.

It's odd that you're basing so much on one season when Mariota and Cam were so awful this year, yet you still have those guys ahead of Andy. Dak had an identical passer rating with much better circumstances. Cam has been bad for 2 straight years now, with passer ratings below Andy's career low.

So...If you have Andy so low primarily based on this year's performance, why do you have him below guys who have been equally bad or worse?

That was my list BEFORE the season as that is what Fred asked for so he could get some laughs. 

BTW, Cam has not been bad for 2 straight seasons. Dude ran for over 750 yards this season. Just because Andy had a passer rating of 6 points higher doesn't mean he had a better season than Cam. I think most would disagree with your assertion.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 03:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The only one on that list I’d say Andy is clearly better than is Mariota.

Mariota surprised me more than anyone. I thought this would be a breakout year for him, but instead it was the 1st year he had a passer rating below 90 and he regressed in the running game. But he did turn it on in the playoffs. So I'm not sure I'm ready to say Andy is clearly better

[TKUHL]

(01-13-2018, 11:36 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I don't understand how all of these stats equal up to getting a different QB?

Unless you want to watch another team you're stuck with Dalton.

Some people will support him. Some will not.

He's just as Bfine says. Average in level of play. Once in a while above that.

People can skew those stats all they want. He is what he is.

I just don't trust this organization to quickly replace our QB anyway.

Do you???

They got lucky that Dalton wasn't a complete flop.

I personally wanted them to draft Ryan Mallett for his great arm.

That would have been a huge mistake.

Lol Same here, thought Mallet was going to be great. I also wanted Murray from Georgia over McCarron. Not even sure where Murray is now.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-14-2018, 08:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Mariota surprised me more than anyone. I thought this would be a breakout year for him, but instead it was the 1st year he had a passer rating below 90 and he regressed in the running game. But he did turn it on in the playoffs. So I'm not sure I'm ready to say Andy is clearly better

Fair enough. And I would take Cam over Andy in heartbeat.

[HarleyDog]

(01-14-2018, 03:02 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We've seen plenty of Andy sans AJ, and he's held up just fine. Very small drop in passer rating with a winning record.

True. However, I was referring to the beginning.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2018, 03:02 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We've seen plenty of Andy sans AJ, and he's held up just fine. Very small drop in passer rating with a winning record.

Like Harley said in the beginning.

No training camp and having to rely on the other WRS without AJ's raw talent could have been a disaster.

I'd take MJ and Sanu over most of the guys on the current roster for a newbie QB version of Dalton as well.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-14-2018, 08:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote: That was my list BEFORE the season as that is what Fred asked for so he could get some laughs. 

BTW, Cam has not been bad for 2 straight seasons. Dude ran for over 750 yards this season. Just because Andy had a passer rating of 6 points higher doesn't mean he had a better season than Cam. I think most would disagree with your assertion.

At some point as a QB, you have to be able to pass effectively. Cam has not done that for 2 seasons, with ratings of 75.8 and 80.7. Not good.

(01-14-2018, 09:45 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: True. However, I was referring to the beginning.

(01-14-2018, 10:03 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Like Harley said in the beginning.

No training camp and having to rely on the other WRS without AJ's raw talent could have been a disaster.

I'd take MJ and Sanu over most of the guys on the current roster for a newbie QB version of Dalton as well.

Well without AJ, our top guy would've been Jerome Simpson, so yeah. I think that would've been a bad sitch for any QB. Especially with the lockout. AJ did provide a weapon to lean on.

[fredtoast]

In his three seasons Jameis Winston has 31 fumbles and 44 interceptions (75 total).
In his last three seasons Dalton has 18 fumbles and 27 interceptions (45 total)

This year Winston led the league with 15 fumbles in just 13 games.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-14-2018, 03:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The only one on that list I’d say Andy is clearly better than is Mariota.

And Carr.

And Winston (how can anyone forget him? lol)

[bengalhoel]

(01-14-2018, 08:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Mariota surprised me more than anyone. I thought this would be a breakout year for him, but instead it was the 1st year he had a passer rating below 90 and he regressed in the running game. But he did turn it on in the playoffs. So I'm not sure I'm ready to say Andy is clearly better

How in the hell can you look at Mariota and not say Andy isnt clearly better? Watch him play. When the Titans run game isnt working he is awful. Hard to watch. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 12:26 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: How in the hell can you look at Mariota and not say Andy isnt clearly better? Watch him play. When the Titans run game isnt working he is awful. Hard to watch. 

Dude just threw for 254 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 98.3 against the New England Patriots in a playoff game while absolutely getting killed by their pass rush. His running back had 28 yards on 12 carries. Not sure how anyone could consider that QB performance terrible.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2018, 12:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well without AJ, our top guy would've been Jerome Simpson, so yeah. I think that would've been a bad sitch for any QB. Especially with the lockout. AJ did provide a weapon to lean on.

I suppose if they picked Julio instead at WR he could have had equally good results.

I forgot about the Simpson, Binns, Hawkins combo.  Not very good supporting cast there for a young QB.

At least he had Greshy.

Man looking over that draft.  Dontay Moch at 66 in the 3rd round?  Yikes!