Bengals casting a wide net to fill Oline position

[Emeritus]

Brett Bielema

[BURROWorBUST]

Mike Brown has his own set of criteria for OLine coaches.




Take your pick. Should we start a poll?

[Bengalpool]

(01-10-2018, 04:25 AM)Shady Wrote: Mike Brown has his own set of criteria for OLine coaches.




Take your pick. Should we start a poll?

Ray if he were still around would be my choice. R.I.P.. He could do a better job than PA.....................

[StoneTheCrow]

(01-09-2018, 09:29 PM)bengals73 Wrote: What up?

God put his lower half on backward

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-09-2018, 10:14 PM)Steve Wrote: i'm fine w/ the changes
BUT......
I don't blame the past 2 years of not running the ball well so much on any coaches....
I blame it more on our weak O-line....Bodine's been weak from jump street....
then drafting Ced & Fisher & losing Whit & Zeitler.....
no coach could of fixed the line at that point....no matter what you call we'd get pushed back....
the offense can't win like that....

the coaches are just the scape goats....

Bullshit.  Alexander lobbied for, and got, the three biggest failures on the team.  One of them singlehandedly deep sixed two consecutive seasons.  Then, when he got who he wanted, he couldn't even coach them up to a mediocre level of play.  He was THE biggest turd on this staff, and at least 80% of the woes of this current roster are squarely on him.  That's why he was FINALLY fired after 24 years.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 12:24 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Damn! I didn't know that. Well maybe Brown finally thought he would give this whole play for a championship thing a try instead of the mom and pop store style he's been hanging onto. Damn he's gonna have to put the Buick up for sale.

*Lumina*  :andy:

[BengalsRocker]

(01-10-2018, 10:18 AM)Wyche Wrote: Bullshit.  Alexander lobbied for, and got, the three biggest failures on the team.  One of them singlehandedly deep sixed two consecutive seasons.  Then, when he got who he wanted, he couldn't even coach them up to a mediocre level of play.  He was THE biggest turd on this staff, and at least 80% of the woes of this current roster are squarely on him.  That's why he was FINALLY fired after 24 years.

Yeah.  To claim Paul Alexander is a scapegoat is insanity.

He's had all of the power and leeway to succeed.

Paul was the master of his own destiny.

:paul:

[WeezyBengal]

(01-09-2018, 11:09 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I blame the coaching a lot. Here's why ...

I listen to a ton of Bengals related Podcasts every week and Dave Lapham gives excellent insight to the inner workings of the org, team, and on the field.

Something he said that was really educational was that Paul Alexander was in charge of the running game and blocking schemes and, as such, made the Oline run a "Mid Zone" scheme. A mid zone basically has the O-linemen fall back or slide across the line of scrimmage and rely on athleticism/technique rather than pushing/driving and power. He said the Bengals players just weren't made for being good at that - horrible at it, actually, but Alexander refused to change it and kept trying to shove a round peg through a square hole.

This is much different than the much more common "Inside Zone", which is more aggressive and designed to use power and strength and push forward. He said there is a huge difference between the two concepts/schemes

Lapham said basically that Lazor forced the change with 6 weeks left in the season. I believe this is what Lazor was referring to when he said in his rehire press conference that the coaches need to be able to have a disagreement and make changes without taking it personally and getting emotional and throwing a fit while still being able to go to lunch after and work together, even if someone doesn't get their way. To that effect, I believe PA was emotionally stumping/fighting for his Mid Zone scheme and "his guys" to continue to play. Lazor finally said enough of this BS, which is why the running game got on the uptick late in the season and some of these more powerful maulers finally got playing time.

Lapham went on to say that the Bengals players are built much better for inside zone - and probably prefer it. He also gave a lot if insight as to why Westerman and Redmond weren't playing and how it was BS for Paul Alexander to have stuck to his idea and players when he had other ones who would have done much better with a proper scheme. Westerman and Redmond are way better suited for inside zone than mid zone so PA gave them little practice time or consideration because he refused to change his ways, even when it was clearly an absolute disaster.

After hearing Lap pull back the curtain the past two weeks I feel like PA was a serious issue among the coaching staff and was totally inept as he was in charge of so much. He wasn't just a line coach in terms of 1 on 1 and technique. He was in charge of the entire running game and ground game plan each week and a lot of ot other coaching things it would seem. Players play, this is true.... but football is a coaches sport in so many ways. They have to put the players in positions to be successful and that just wasn't being done.

This makes a lot of sense. It almost got to a point this year where there was just no way that the players on the offensive line were THAT bad. Knowing it boiled down to scheme a lot more than anything explains a lot. I still dont think some of the guys on the line are GREAT players, but it does explain things. 

[WeezyBengal]

The fact that Lazor seems like he forced Piano Man out makes me like him even more.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-10-2018, 11:03 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This makes a lot of sense. It almost got to a point this year where there was just no way that the players on the offensive line were THAT bad. Knowing it boiled down to scheme a lot more than anything explains a lot. I still dont think some of the guys on the line are GREAT players, but it does explain things. 

There were times it seemed like players on the line didn't know who to even block or what to do.

How can you get to the NFL and start and look so lost?

I would wager that there is no way they could find someone worse at coaching, schemes, and identifying the player's strengths to adjust the scheme.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 10:49 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah.  To claim Paul Alexander is a scapegoat is insanity.

He's had all of the power and leeway to succeed.

Paul was the master of his own destiny.

:paul:

Absolutely.....NO ONE, not even Merv, has had this kind of leeway.  To fail to adapt to the players you have, and the ever changing game itself kinda goes back to the lack of accountability with this organization that many of us have bemoaned for years.  Look what it got us the last two seasons.....and many seasons of subpar running game.

[masonbengals fan]

So I guess Marvin is a scapegoat also?

[Shake n Blake]

(01-10-2018, 04:25 AM)Shady Wrote: Mike Brown has his own set of criteria for OLine coaches.




Take your pick. Should we start a poll?

Mike would pick the dog, because the dog can also perform the monkey-riding-dog routine at halftime shows. Saves money. Plus he can pay him in treats.

[Yojimbo]

I like the Utah coach idea. They’ve always put out very good lineman and we have one of his guys on the roster already.

[sandwedge]

(01-09-2018, 11:09 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I blame the coaching a lot. Here's why ...

I listen to a ton of Bengals related Podcasts every week and Dave Lapham gives excellent insight to the inner workings of the org, team, and on the field.

Something he said that was really educational was that Paul Alexander was in charge of the running game and blocking schemes and, as such, made the Oline run a "Mid Zone" scheme. A mid zone basically has the O-linemen fall back or slide across the line of scrimmage and rely on athleticism/technique rather than pushing/driving and power. He said the Bengals players just weren't made for being good at that - horrible at it, actually, but Alexander refused to change it and kept trying to shove a round peg through a square hole.

This is much different than the much more common "Inside Zone", which is more aggressive and designed to use power and strength and push forward. He said there is a huge difference between the two concepts/schemes

Lapham said basically that Lazor forced the change with 6 weeks left in the season. I believe this is what Lazor was referring to when he said in his rehire press conference that the coaches need to be able to have a disagreement and make changes without taking it personally and getting emotional and throwing a fit while still being able to go to lunch after and work together, even if someone doesn't get their way. To that effect, I believe PA was emotionally stumping/fighting for his Mid Zone scheme and "his guys" to continue to play. Lazor finally said enough of this BS, which is why the running game got on the uptick late in the season and some of these more powerful maulers finally got playing time.

Lapham went on to say that the Bengals players are built much better for inside zone - and probably prefer it. He also gave a lot if insight as to why Westerman and Redmond weren't playing and how it was BS for Paul Alexander to have stuck to his idea and players when he had other ones who would have done much better with a proper scheme. Westerman and Redmond are way better suited for inside zone than mid zone so PA gave them little practice time or consideration because he refused to change his ways, even when it was clearly an absolute disaster.

After hearing Lap pull back the curtain the past two weeks I feel like PA was a serious issue among the coaching staff and was totally inept as he was in charge of so much. He wasn't just a line coach in terms of 1 on 1 and technique. He was in charge of the entire running game and ground game plan each week and a lot of ot other coaching things it would seem. Players play, this is true.... but football is a coaches sport in so many ways. They have to put the players in positions to be successful and that just wasn't being done.

Thanks PDub! I hadn't read or heard that before, but makes a lot of sense. It's hard to believe that an OC who was on the job for 2 months, was the first one to say something about this. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-10-2018, 12:49 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I like the Utah coach idea. They’ve always put out very good lineman and we have one of his guys on the roster already.

... We do?

Trying to figure out who, but I don't think so...

[sandwedge]

(01-10-2018, 01:11 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: ... We do?

Trying to figure out who, but I don't think so...

JJ Dielman is who I think he was referring to.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-10-2018, 01:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: JJ Dielman is who I think he was referring to.

He's on someone PS though... San Francisco or Philadelphia.

I figured he was the guy, but wasn't sure if he went to Utah, Utah State or Mormon Headquarters.

[bengalhoel]

(01-09-2018, 11:09 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I blame the coaching a lot. Here's why ...

I listen to a ton of Bengals related Podcasts every week and Dave Lapham gives excellent insight to the inner workings of the org, team, and on the field.

Something he said that was really educational was that Paul Alexander was in charge of the running game and blocking schemes and, as such, made the Oline run a "Mid Zone" scheme. A mid zone basically has the O-linemen fall back or slide across the line of scrimmage and rely on athleticism/technique rather than pushing/driving and power. He said the Bengals players just weren't made for being good at that - horrible at it, actually, but Alexander refused to change it and kept trying to shove a round peg through a square hole.

This is much different than the much more common "Inside Zone", which is more aggressive and designed to use power and strength and push forward. He said there is a huge difference between the two concepts/schemes

Lapham said basically that Lazor forced the change with 6 weeks left in the season. I believe this is what Lazor was referring to when he said in his rehire press conference that the coaches need to be able to have a disagreement and make changes without taking it personally and getting emotional and throwing a fit while still being able to go to lunch after and work together, even if someone doesn't get their way. To that effect, I believe PA was emotionally stumping/fighting for his Mid Zone scheme and "his guys" to continue to play. Lazor finally said enough of this BS, which is why the running game got on the uptick late in the season and some of these more powerful maulers finally got playing time.

Lapham went on to say that the Bengals players are built much better for inside zone - and probably prefer it. He also gave a lot if insight as to why Westerman and Redmond weren't playing and how it was BS for Paul Alexander to have stuck to his idea and players when he had other ones who would have done much better with a proper scheme. Westerman and Redmond are way better suited for inside zone than mid zone so PA gave them little practice time or consideration because he refused to change his ways, even when it was clearly an absolute disaster.

After hearing Lap pull back the curtain the past two weeks I feel like PA was a serious issue among the coaching staff and was totally inept as he was in charge of so much. He wasn't just a line coach in terms of 1 on 1 and technique. He was in charge of the entire running game and ground game plan each week and a lot of ot other coaching things it would seem. Players play, this is true.... but football is a coaches sport in so many ways. They have to put the players in positions to be successful and that just wasn't being done.

If this is true then the fans were right and Paul Alexander has been screwing this franchise for years. Hell, I did not want Marvin Lewis back and I was pissed about it, but after hearing this its obvious that Brown forced him to keep Paul.

I really hope now that Marvin picks someone who will help us win because if Lazor can change the line scheme and have our running backs playing at an above average level after 2 games imagine what a real offensive line coach could do in a whole offseason. 

Maybe this doesnt have to be a complete rebuild job.


As part of a halftime show this year , Mike Brown should let season ticket holders give old PA a soap party on the 50 yard line ala Pyle in full metal jacket.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-09-2018, 09:26 PM)jj22 Wrote: And I like it..

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/1/9/16871266/bengals-utah-o-line-coach-jim-harding-david-lippincott-raiders?utm_campaign=cincyjungle&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Glad to see they are looking at college oline coaches. There are some good ones out there.

Really like the Utah OLC Harding. Knows how to teach technique especially in run blocking, would be a great change
from PA. Just goes to show you that Harding got lots of good play out of Dielman, PA has us select him and he ends
up getting dropped to the PS and goes to another team. So happy we have moved on from this guy.

Don't like the Broncos OLC for us, they had a similar problem with their O-line as us, not as bad but we need someone
who really knows what they are doing for us to go to the next level and win a Playoff game.