Position Battles: Linebacker

[BFritz21]

Saw today that Dawson's impressing people.

I'm excited for him and think that our backing core could be a strength if he can keep developing like it sounds like he is.

[J24]

Linebacker locks
Vontaz- Sideline to Sideline player- If healthy he is superstar but if he is not this defense loses its heart and soul. 
Rey M- Run stuffer- He will start but he won't get the majority of snaps. Made a huge impact on defense when returned from injury last season.
Vincent Rey- First LB off the bench and special teams leader- Struggled at MLB last season but when he became the starting WLB in week 11 he lead all 4-3 OLB in tackles and was 3rd in stops according to PFF. Also lead team in tackles last season.
Lamur- Coverage Specialist- I don't think he will start but he will be our top coverage LB and will get plenty of snaps.
PJ Dawson- Top Rookie- Vontaz clone but the Bengals prefer to let there rookies sit and wait.
Close to Locks
Marquise Flowers- Key special teams player and backup coverage specialist.

Roster scrum
AJ Hawk- He is a veteran piece but if Vontaz is healthy does he even play regular snaps on defense. Also wouldn't it be more wise to have a younger guy fill that role than him as a special teams guy. To me he either starts at SAM or he is released. With his experience I think he is the odds on favorite to start at SAM.
Chris Carter- He has apparently impressed in camps but I have to see it in the pre season before I believe in him. If he impresses at SAM and as an edge rusher in pre season he could become our new SAM LB. He also could be another victim of a Hobson fluff piece.
Paul Dimanche- Special team player but hasn't proven anything on defense.
Nico Johnson- Special team player and could be a fit at SAM. Poor mans Rey M.
Sean Porter- Injury prone but he might have the most ability out all the linebackers in the scrum. Might go pup?
Trevor Roach- I don't know that much about him.

At the end of the Day- I think the Bengals keep 7 at this spot and only keep 3 at RB.  Vontaz, Rey M, Lamur, V Rey, PJ Dawson, Marquise Flowers, and  AJ Hawk.

[CJD]

(08-11-2015, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So who have you seen that looks better playing SOLB than Lamur?

That's kind of the whole point of training camp and the preseason, yea?

You admit Lamur sucked last year, but you're fine with just autolocking in his roster spot on this team just because?

Let someone try to beat him. If he is still the best option at the end of the pre-season, he'll get his starting job back.

But the way he played last year, I don't know where people get off thinking he is anything more than a below average starter at SOLB.

[fredtoast]

(08-12-2015, 08:23 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You admit Lamur sucked last year, but you're fine with just autolocking in his roster spot on this team just because?

I did nt say he "sucked".  And I also said that I expect him to improve because '14 was his first year starting at a new position.

I am not just automatically locking him into the starting lineup, but when you look at the reality of the situation we have to have someone play better before we replace him.  So actually you are the one that is just doing something "just because".  You can't just change players for the sake of change.  you have to have an upgrade before you can justify dropping a guy out of the starting line up.

[fredtoast]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Camp-report-Backers-show-versatility/f9b7bef3-448a-4f2b-ab1a-8ebe947eb606


"Guenther moved Vincent Rey from the middle to WILL and moved A.J. Hawk from WILL to SAM in the first defense to make room for Maualuga. And when they went to the nickel package, promoted rush end/linebacker Chris Carter to the first team. Plus, they toyed with a three-man front in nickel for a different look while dropping Carter."

[fredtoast]

(08-12-2015, 01:48 AM)J24 Wrote: PJ Dawson- Top Rookie- Vontaz clone but the Bengals prefer to let there rookies sit and wait.

"Burfict clone" is a bit over the top.  Burfict is an All-Pro LB.

And although I agree Dawson is a lock to make the roster, the Bengals have never had a problem with letting rookies play when they are good enough.

[*ochocincos*]

Unless he's developed the ability to shed blocks, Lamur is out of position at the SAM. His skill set translates best to WILL. The Bengals need a player who is better at taking on and shedding blocks, strong in run support, and can occasionally rush the passer when the call is made to do so (not very often for our SAM in recent years).

The Bengals have not been able to find a truly complete SAM in awhile. The best candidate may have been Maualuga. Lawson and Harrison struggled in coverage. Lamur is better in coverage, but has not been as good in run support.

Nico Johnson might be a good candidate that can play either SAM or MIKE. I haven't watched him much personally, but his scouting report suggests he has a quality skillset for these roles (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/nico-johnson?id=2539193)

[SFmajor]

(08-11-2015, 08:42 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I agree with your top 6. Of the rest, I like Nico Johnson.  

I would agree, I'm not convinced that Mau is 100%.  Nico would fit nicely in that 2 down role.  

[djs7685]

(08-12-2015, 11:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: "Guenther moved Vincent Rey from the middle to WILL and moved A.J. Hawk from WILL to SAM in the first defense to make room for Maualuga.

Ugh. If a spot was essentially open at SAM, and they needed to fit Maualuga in somewhere......

:lightbulb: ....we really need that emoticon on here.

(08-12-2015, 11:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And although I agree Dawson is a lock to make the roster, the Bengals have never had a problem with letting rookies play when they are good enough.

This is true, and I think it will be telling if Dawson doesn't end up seeing many snaps in a weak LB group.

I want every rookie to succeed, but I've seen some awfully high hopes for Dawson compared to most of our other guys out of the draft. It doesn't seem realistic that he comes in and dominates just because others have in the past.

[SFmajor]

(08-12-2015, 01:48 AM)J24 Wrote: Linebacker locks
Vontaz- Sideline to Sideline player- If healthy he is superstar but if he is not this defense loses its heart and soul. 
Rey M- Run stuffer- He will start but he won't get the majority of snaps. Made a huge impact on defense when returned from injury last season.
Vincent Rey- First LB off the bench and special teams leader- Struggled at MLB last season but when he became the starting WLB in week 11 he lead all 4-3 OLB in tackles and was 3rd in stops according to PFF. Also lead team in tackles last season.
Lamur- Coverage Specialist- I don't think he will start but he will be our top coverage LB and will get plenty of snaps.
PJ Dawson- Top Rookie- Vontaz clone but the Bengals prefer to let there rookies sit and wait.
Close to Locks
Marquise Flowers- Key special teams player and backup coverage specialist.

Roster scrum
AJ Hawk- He is a veteran piece but if Vontaz is healthy does he even play regular snaps on defense. Also wouldn't it be more wise to have a younger guy fill that role than him as a special teams guy. To me he either starts at SAM or he is released. With his experience I think he is the odds on favorite to start at SAM.
Chris Carter- He has apparently impressed in camps but I have to see it in the pre season before I believe in him. If he impresses at SAM and as an edge rusher in pre season he could become our new SAM LB. He also could be another victim of a Hobson fluff piece.
Paul Dimanche- Special team player but hasn't proven anything on defense.
Nico Johnson- Special team player and could be a fit at SAM. Poor mans Rey M.
Sean Porter- Injury prone but he might have the most ability out all the linebackers in the scrum. Might go pup?
Trevor Roach- I don't know that much about him.

At the end of the Day- I think the Bengals keep 7 at this spot and only keep 3 at RB.  Vontaz, Rey M, Lamur, V Rey, PJ Dawson, Marquise Flowers, and  AJ Hawk.

Here is some film on Roach.  Hope you're able to view it.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+of+trevor+roach&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=74E533638EA78B4A303C74E533638EA78B4A303C

[fredtoast]

(08-12-2015, 11:44 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Ugh. If a spot was essentially open at SAM, and they needed to fit Maualuga in somewhere......

:lightbulb: ....we really need that emoticon on here.

It was not about just one position.  It was about the entire line up.

They figure that 

SOLB....Hawk
MLB......Maualuga
WOLB...Rey

was overall better than

SOLB....Maualuga
MLB......Rey
WOLB...Hawk

[djs7685]

(08-12-2015, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It was not about just one position.  It was about the entire line up.

They figure that 

SOLB....Hawk
MLB......Maualuga
WOLB...Rey

was overall better than

SOLB....Maualuga
MLB......Rey
WOLB...Hawk

I suppose that makes sense but part of me thinks they're being very stubborn on having Maualuga at MLB without any other consideration, even though he's played his best football at SLB.

It's just a baseless guess on my part, but I feel like they're going with the mindset that Maualuga HAS to play MLB, so that's why the others had to move where they were eventually placed.

[BURROWorBUST]

After the first pre=-season game . . .

Rey M. looked really good in limited snaps.

Nico Johnson was everywhere, always seemed to be in position. Led the team in tackles. Almost got a pick.

Marquis Flowers looked very good. Made some tackles, defended a pass, was good on coverage.

Chris Carter - did get a pressure. Showed why they're intrigued with using him as a DE/LB on obvious passing downs.

V. Rey - His usual solid self. Made a good play with Rey M. in stopping a run to the left for only 2 yards.

Lamur - made a great play to stuff a run to the right on 3rd and short to stop Eli's last attempt at a "drive." Otherwise, he looked kind of like he did last year . . . decent, bordering on good, but nowhere near great.

AJ Hawk didn't get much chance to show much.

P.J. Dawson - looked like a rookie playing tenative. He hasn't turned it on yet.

None of the other LBs did anything to make me think they're making the roster.

I'm thinking we should end up like this IF WE KEEP 7 LBS

SLB
Flowers - has the skills and athleticism, could learn a ton working in rotation with Hawk at SAM
AJ Hawk or Chris Carter- Hawk is still a skilled veteran with enough left in the tank to make us better, but could become lethal off the edge. Keeping either one could mean saying goodbye to Lamur.


MLB
Maualuga – He's been getting better at MLB every year, but I don't think we should ask him to hold up for an entire year. He'd be helped if rotated in and out with Nico.
Nico Johnson - Shows alot of strength as a MLB. He could replace Rey Rey in a year or two, but should get plenty of playing time in rotation right away.

WLB
Burfict - Can't wait to get him back
Dawson - I don't know how they're going to get this kid on the field with Burfict when he's ready, but they'd better start thinking about ways. It won't take him long to be ready.
V. Rey - STs captain and consummate back-up, can play all 3 positions

If we keep 8, it will mean deciding between these 2.
Lamur - has to show more tenacity against the run, go get the damn ball!!
Carter – Could become lethal off the edge. If they want to go with 7 LBs, I'd be tempted to keep him over AJ Hawk.

Roach might go to PS, but DiManche and Porter haven't shown me anything.

[IckeyShuffle]

(08-18-2015, 10:13 PM)Shady Wrote: After the first pre=-season game . . .  

Rey M. looked really good in limited snaps.

Nico Johnson was everywhere, always seemed to be in position. Led the team in tackles. Almost got a pick.

Marquis Flowers looked very good. Made some tackles, defended a pass, was good on coverage.

Chris Carter - did get a pressure. Showed why they're intrigued with using him as a DE/LB on obvious passing downs.

V. Rey - His usual solid self. Made a good play with Rey M. in stopping a run to the left for only 2 yards.

Lamur - made a great play to stuff a run to the right on 3rd and short to stop Eli's last attempt at a "drive."  Otherwise, he looked kind of like he did last year . . . decent, bordering on good, but nowhere near great.

AJ Hawk didn't get much chance to show much.

P.J. Dawson - looked like a rookie playing tenative. He hasn't turned it on yet.

None of the other LBs did anything to make me think they're making the roster.

I'm thinking we should end up like this IF WE KEEP 7 LBS

SLB
Flowers - has the skills and athleticism, could learn a ton working in rotation with Hawk at SAM
AJ Hawk or Chris Carter- Hawk is still a skilled veteran with enough left in the tank to make us better, but could become lethal off the edge. Keeping either one could mean saying goodbye to Lamur.


MLB
Maualuga – He's been getting better at MLB every year, but I don't think we should ask him to hold up for an entire year. He'd be helped if rotated in and out with Nico.
Nico Johnson - Shows alot of strength as a MLB. He could replace Rey Rey in a year or two, but should get plenty of playing time in rotation right away.

WLB
Burfict - Can't wait to get him back
Dawson - I don't know how they're going to get this kid on the field with Burfict when he's ready, but they'd better start thinking about ways. It won't take him long to be ready.
V. Rey - STs captain and consummate back-up, can play all 3 positions

If we keep 8, it will mean deciding between these 2.
Lamur - has to show more tenacity against the run, go get the damn ball!!
Carter – Could become lethal off the edge. If they want to go with 7 LBs, I'd be tempted to keep him over AJ Hawk.

Roach might go to PS, but DiManche and Porter haven't shown me anything.

I agree for the most part. Based on rotations they have been running I think Lamur stays before Flowers. That said, I don't expect Burfict back for a while so I think they keep Flowers and Lamur both. I don't think Carter will make the cut -- very quick but undersized.

[XenoMorph]

Hawk has the starting SAM spot now/// chris Carter probly makes it as the LB/DE tweener we have been searching for forever.