Did we just witness the fall of the Evil Empire?

[Shake n Blake]

(01-16-2018, 12:16 AM)motoarch Wrote: See post 47.  You wish Cincinnati would experience the level of mediocrity those qbs achieved.  Neil O’Donnell played in a freaking Super Bowl.  You guys aren’t helpin your case at all.  Seriously do you guys research any of this stuff before you type it out.

See the post you just replied to. I said "without the elite defense". Neil O'Donnell had an elite defense.

Seriously, you should read the post you reply to and let it sink in before you type out a response.

[*pally*]

Ben is throwing his coaches under the bus by claiming he is not allowed to change plays...Can you imagine any other veteran QB putting up with that? Show a high level of trust from both sides...not
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/16/big-ben-says-hes-not-allowed-to-check-to-a-fourth-and-1-quarterback-sneak/

And supposedly the limited partners are asking for Tomlin to be fired.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/16/source-some-steelers-limited-partners-want-a-coaching-change/

[Striper]

I'm about to give the steelers some compliments and I want you to know that it grosses me out to type this, but I just don't see the decline happening anytime soon. The Steelers don't rebuild. They reload and they'll do it again. I'm thrilled and tickled that they lost to the Jaguars, but they won 13 games and their run of competitive, annoying play isn't close to being over. Their offense is loaded. Their oline is solid. Ben has at least 2 more years and all he needs is his arm to be functional for hte offense to go. They're like the Patriots in this regard. They are really good at knowing when to move on from declining players and target college players or free agents who check all of their boxes in their organizational philosophy to replace them. The Bengals don't do this well at all.

I also know they'll have a plan in place for the future when Roethlisberger moves on. It's very likely that Roethlisberger has had internal discussions with their football ops people about when he's gonna retire so they can map out a plan to find the Aaron Rodgers to his Brett Favre. Our only hope is they guess wrong and the guy they end up bringing in is a complete bust and tanks their entire program. I'm glad I won't have to worry about them in this final four, but I won't be truly happy until their fans know what it's like to be 2-14, 3-13, 4-12, and hopeless for improvement going into the next season. I'd love to see how good their fans are when they have to support a decade of pisspoor play like we had to. My guess is you'll know a lot fewer steelers fans than you know now.

[motoarch]

(01-16-2018, 02:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: See the post you just replied to. I said "without the elite defense". Neil O'Donnell had an elite defense.

Seriously, you should read the post you reply to and let it sink in before you type out a response.

You undermined your argument when you list four qbs with a combined 15 playoff wins regardless of defense. Fact is even when Pittsburgh it’s that good they still find a way to win playoff games. There mediocre is something we can only dream about.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-16-2018, 03:51 PM)motoarch Wrote: You undermined your argument when you list four qbs with a combined 15 playoff wins regardless of defense.  Fact is even when Pittsburgh it’s that good they still find a way to win playoff games.  There mediocre is something we can only dream about.

Their defense is currently nowhere near what it was for those 4 QBs, and it hasn't been even close to elite for 5-6 years now.

I thought this would be pretty simple to grasp. For years, the Steelers had a top-of-the-NFL defense. That hasn't been the case for a long time now, and Ben helps mask that. If they lose Ben, they don't have the defense to make up for mediocre QB play. 

[sandwedge]

(01-16-2018, 04:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Their defense is currently nowhere near what it was for those 4 QBs, and it hasn't been even close to elite for 5-6 years now.

I thought this would be pretty simple to grasp. For years, the Steelers had a top-of-the-NFL defense. That hasn't been the case for a long time now, and Ben helps mask that. If they lose Ben, they don't have the defense to make up for mediocre QB play. 

And they probably won't have that defense for awhile with Shazier possibly never playing again.

[Striper]

yeah even if you remove the Roethlisberger era the Steelers "down" years still included a Super Bowl appearance and a few AFC championship game appearances. Sounds like fun compared to what we were doing during the same time period. I argue nobody's had it better for longer than a Steelers fan. That's why they're so annoying.

I actually rooted for them against the Chargers in 94 and the Cowboys in 95 because I was a kid and I hated the 49ers and Cowboys so much at the time. Maybe that's why they lost both times. Hahaha.

[Derrick]

(01-15-2018, 10:41 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Doubtful.  What we did witness yesterday was an inspired game played by an inspired team.  Jags showed a lot of character to hold on for dear life, as the more talented team came roaring back.

Something we are not used to seeing in Cincy.

[Shake n Blake]

And fwiw, my opinion on Tomlin has changed over the years. He had a couple playoff runs with Chin's team and LeBeau's defense years ago, but outside of that, he's mostly been a failure in the playoffs.

- One-n-done four times
- Missed the playoffs 3 times
- 3-5 record from 2011-present, with one of those wins gifted by the Bengals, who never win playoff games
- Lost to Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles
- In 7 of his 11 years, he's either gone one-n-done or missed the playoffs entirely

Sure, by Bengals' standards, this would be wild success...but Tomlin's results don't match his reputation as a great coach.

[WeezyBengal]

The Steelers are going to win 10 + games next year and the division. Youre an idiot if you think otherwise.

Ben, AB, and Bell. Thats it thats all.

[GodFather]

(01-16-2018, 04:44 PM)Derrick Wrote: Something we are not used to seeing in Cincy.

and never will under Marvin Lewis..

[GodFather]

(01-16-2018, 04:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: And fwiw, my opinion on Tomlin has changed over the years. He had a couple playoff runs with Chin's team and LeBeau's defense years ago, but outside of that, he's mostly been a failure in the playoffs.

- One-n-done four times
- Missed the playoffs 3 times
- 3-5 record from 2011-present, with one of those wins gifted by the Bengals, who never win playoff games
- Lost to Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles
- In 7 of his 11 years, he's either gone one-n-done or missed the playoffs entirely

Sure, by Bengals' standards, this would be wild success...but Tomlin's results don't match his reputation as a great coach.

As sad as it is, that last line couldn't be more true...

[WeezyBengal]

(01-15-2018, 09:54 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: The thread title might a little misleading, I just couldn't word what my thoughts were properly. Anyways,  to the point..

This season will be the best season the Steelers will have for a long time. I think we are in the beginning stages of the fall of the Evil Empire. I know Big Ben has already said that he is coming back but in my opinion it doesn't matter.

Their defense just isn't any good without Shazier. It's sad but I don't ever see him playing again. I think their defense went from above average to bad without him.

Big Ben is on the decline and I don't think next year will be any better. They have too many prima donnas on offense. If Im not mistaken they are right at the cap and franchising bell will put them over this upcoming season. I believe they will have to cut ties with 1 or 2 noteable players to keep him or if they decide to move on (highly unlikely) that would make their offense way less potent.

I believe this year was kind of an all in year and it didn't happen. Will they be good next year? Most likely. Will they compete for a super bowl? Highly unlikely imo. Due to salary cap restraints, age, injuries etc, i just do not see it at all possible the steelers field a better team than this year and I believe they will be on the decline with each passing year.

What say you?

You do realize that Ben was top 5 in the entire NFL and third in the AFC in passing yards, right? He was fifth in TDs and second in yards per game. 

Stop with this notion that Ben is washed up and is somehow falling off. It just simply isn't true. 

Also can we PLEASE stop with this notion that we are waiting for the Steelers to suck so we can finally win the division again? I mean how pathetic is that, seriously? 

You want to beat the Steelers than get better players on your team and coach them better. Stop just waiting for the other team to suck so you can finally be better than them. 

[BengalYankee]

(01-15-2018, 09:54 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: The thread title might a little misleading, I just couldn't word what my thoughts were properly. Anyways,  to the point..

This season will be the best season the Steelers will have for a long time. I think we are in the beginning stages of the fall of the Evil Empire. I know Big Ben has already said that he is coming back but in my opinion it doesn't matter.

Their defense just isn't any good without Shazier. It's sad but I don't ever see him playing again. I think their defense went from above average to bad without him.

Big Ben is on the decline and I don't think next year will be any better. They have too many prima donnas on offense. If Im not mistaken they are right at the cap and franchising bell will put them over this upcoming season. I believe they will have to cut ties with 1 or 2 noteable players to keep him or if they decide to move on (highly unlikely) that would make their offense way less potent.

I believe this year was kind of an all in year and it didn't happen. Will they be good next year? Most likely. Will they compete for a super bowl? Highly unlikely imo. Due to salary cap restraints, age, injuries etc, i just do not see it at all possible the steelers field a better team than this year and I believe they will be on the decline with each passing year.

What say you?

[motoarch]

(01-16-2018, 04:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Their defense is currently nowhere near what it was for those 4 QBs, and it hasn't been even close to elite for 5-6 years now.

I thought this would be pretty simple to grasp. For years, the Steelers had a top-of-the-NFL defense. That hasn't been the case for a long time now, and Ben helps mask that. If they lose Ben, they don't have the defense to make up for mediocre QB play. 

And you’re missing the bigger picture. It doesn’t matter if they have a top flight D or a shitty QB or whatever scenario you want to create in a vacuum. They might have a down season here or there but ultimately they will find a way to win and that’s that. They always have.

[BMK]

(01-16-2018, 05:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Also can we PLEASE stop with this notion that we are waiting for the Steelers to suck so we can finally win the division again? I mean how pathetic is that, seriously? 

You want to beat the Steelers than get better players on your team and coach them better. Stop just waiting for the other team to suck so you can finally be better than them. 

[Shake n Blake]

(01-16-2018, 06:27 PM)motoarch Wrote: And you’re missing the bigger picture.  It doesn’t matter if they have a top flight D or a shitty QB or whatever scenario you want to create in a vacuum.  They might have a down season here or there but ultimately they will find a way to win and that’s that.  They always have.

I figured that's what you were driving at, but they've "always won" because they've had either an elite defense or an elite QB (or both for a bit).

We've seen what happens when their defense isn't elite and they don't have an elite QB. It's called "the 80's".

Cowher and Lebeau's influence over that defense is long gone.

They've held on thanks to the 3 B's, but once Ben is gone, I'm not sure they "find a way to win" any more than they did in the 80's.

[motoarch]

Hope you’re right but my confidence is shot after watching 27 years of failure here.

[BengalYankee]

(01-16-2018, 06:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I figured that's what you were driving at, but they've "always won" because they've had either an elite defense or an elite QB (or both for a bit).

We've seen what happens when their defense isn't elite and they don't have an elite QB. It's called "the 80's".

Cowher and Lebeau's influence over that defense is long gone.

They've held on thanks to the 3 B's, but once Ben is gone, I'm not sure they "find a way to win" any more than they did in the 80's.

Steeler's had 8, again 8 All pro's and only one of them was influenced by Cowher and that was Big Ben.

So, Tomlin had an influence of 8 All Pro's.  

[McC]

I prefer to never expect them to go anywhere and then I'm never disappointed. And if the day ever comes that they do fall off, and I son't think they ever will, then it's a nice surprise.

The reason we lose to them is 90% mental anyway. Where the Jags kept answering the call and stem the comeback, we don't. We can get the lead but we can't hold onto the lead.

The only way to make them go away is to make them go away.