When was the last time...

[*ochocincos*]

When was the last time that the Bengals spent $8+ mill a year on a player in FA that came from outside the organization?

I bring this up because about $8 mill a year seems to be the going rate for an upper-tier player at almost all positions (now) and if you're not willing to spend that much on an outside FA, your chances of landing a really good player drop considerably.

I can't recall the Bengals bringing in any FA for an average of $8+ mill a year...ever?

[HarleyDog]

The Cinderella dream team is dead in Cincinnati. Not sure why they keep chasing it?

[Bengalholic]

(01-17-2018, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: When was the last time that the Bengals spent $8+ mill a year on a player in FA that came from outside the organization?

I bring this up because about $8 mill a year seems to be the going rate for an upper-tier player at almost all positions (now) and if you're not willing to spend that much on an outside FA, your chances of landing a really good player drop considerably.

I can't recall the Bengals bringing in any FA for an average of $8+ mill a year...ever?

The 3 biggest free agent contracts the Bengals have ever given out:

Antonio Bryant   4 yr - 28m
Laveranues Coles 4 yr - 28m
Antwan Odom   5 yr - 29.5m 

Since the Bryant deal, they have only given out 2 two other free agent contracts at 5m or more apy...Clements 2011 and and MJ 2015).

Since 2013, there have only been 4 deals with an average of 3m or more.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

MB and company are a lot like some old guys i know.

Don't understand that inflation is a thing. Still stuck in a time long ago and far away...

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 04:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The 3 biggest free agent contracts the Bengals have ever given out:

Antonio Bryant   4 yr - 28m
Laveranues Coles   4 yr - 28m
Antwan Odom   5 yr - 29.5m 

The way salaries have gone up I'd say all of those deals would be worth $8 million a year in 2018.

It also depends on position.  Only 10 ILBs in the league make more than $8 million a year.

Finally, there are plenty of free agents that sign for less than $8 million per year.  We don't have to sign the top player at any position, all we need are a couple of solid starters.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-17-2018, 05:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The way salaries have gone up I'd say all of those deals would be worth $8 million a year in 2018.

It also depends on position.  Only 10 ILBs in the league make more than $8 million a year.

Finally, there are plenty of free agents that sign for less than $8 million per year.  We don't have to sign the top player at any position, all we need are a couple of solid starters.

Looking at the Jags, they signed multiple players at $8+ mill a year average to get them where they are.
Church, Campbell, and Bouye all $8+ mill.

I totally get that certain positions are cheaper than others to acquire good talent, ILB is one of them as you point out.

What 3 players would you look to acquire in FA if you were on a budget?

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 05:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Looking at the Jags, they signed multiple players at $8+ mill a year average to get them where they are.
Church, Campbell, and Bouye all $8+ mill.

And that is the exception to the rule.  You can't set your plans based on an outlier.  

Jags were 42-102 the previous 9 years and I can post a long list of teams who signed multiple expensive free agents and failed.

[Socal Bengals fan]

If the goal is not to reach the Superbowl then keep doing what we are doing for the last 26 years. Otherwise let's try a different approach n sign someone worth a damn..

[Bengalholic]

(01-17-2018, 05:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The way salaries have gone up I'd say all of those deals would be worth $8 million a year in 2018.

It also depends on position.  Only 10 ILBs in the league make more than $8 million a year.

Finally, there are plenty of free agents that sign for less than $8 million per year.  We don't have to sign the top player at any position, all we need are a couple of solid starters.

Over the last 5 years, they have only signed 4 free agents to contracts that average 3m or more, and two of those were former Bengals.

Since the Bryant disaster, they've basically put a ceiling of 5m in place and haven't deviated from that for the last 7 years.

So, for now it seems like a waste of time to talk about 8m, 7m or even 6m, because they haven't been in that ballpark since 2010.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-17-2018, 05:40 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: If the goal is not to reach the Superbowl then keep doing what we are doing for the last 26 years.  Otherwise let's try a different approach n sign someone worth a damn..

Yep, change it up.

What they have been doing just hasn't been working. Have to take a gamble once in awhile if you want that Championship.

[*bfine32*]

(01-17-2018, 04:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The 3 biggest free agent contracts the Bengals have ever given out:

Antonio Bryant   4 yr - 28m
Laveranues Coles   4 yr - 28m
Antwan Odom   5 yr - 29.5m 

Well at least now we know why they don't do it anymore.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-17-2018, 05:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Over the last 5 years, they have only signed 4 free agents to contracts that average 3m or more, and two of those were former Bengals.

Since the Bryant disaster, they've basically put a ceiling of 5m in place haven't deviated from that for the last 7 years.

So, for now it seems like a waste of time to talk about 8m, 7m or even 6m, because they haven't been in that ballpark since 2010.

Seeing that Marvin has some newly acquired "powers" as pseudo-defacto part-time GM input adder, perhaps he can convince the money keeper that it's been long enough and that he can pick players worth the money? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-17-2018, 06:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well at least now we know why they don't do it anymore.

They didn't do their homework on those guys, atleast Odom was pretty great one game against the Packers lol

AB was a big time mistake, Coles was old.

(01-17-2018, 06:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Seeing that Marvin has some newly acquired "powers" as pseudo-defacto part-time GM input adder, perhaps he can convince the money keeper that it's been long enough and that he can pick players worth the money? 

Have to look around the NFL and watch what a grab like Alex Mack did for the Falcons a year ago...

That is how you improve your team in FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-17-2018, 06:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well at least now we know why they don't do it anymore.

This did make me laugh. But in all fairness, stop trying to do something because you've failed at it in the past? Or perhaps take a different approach with some new staff who you believe can better assess talent?

[depthchart]

(01-17-2018, 05:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Over the last 5 years, they have only signed 4 free agents to contracts that average 3m or more, and two of those were former Bengals.

Since the Bryant disaster, they've basically put a ceiling of 5m in place haven't deviated from that for the last 7 years.

So, for now it seems like a waste of time to talk about 8m, 7m or even 6m, because they haven't been in that ballpark since 2010.

As you imply, the Bengals have effectively eliminated a certain portion of the Free Agent market from consideration.

Free Agents have NFL experience that offers a track record of their performance that can be examined. More information on them than College prospects have going in.

It is up to each team to recognize the cost/benefit of getting a certain Free Agent on the roster.

Tom Coughlin in Jacksonville hit big on higher dollar Free Agents because he had the freedom to at least consider them and had his own personal talent evaluating expertise that enabled him to judge properly who to get & why.

The Fear of having a Free Agent fail is likely correlated to how confident the person picking them is in their own ability to judge talent. An NFL guy like Coughlin fearlessly pulls the trigger to get Free agents.

The Bengals have possibly become gun shy due to past failures. Creating a "Policy" of avoiding vast portions of the Free Agent market based on dollar amounts etc.

They may never go to the level the Jags just did but they do need to consider broadening the Free Agent Pool of players they consider.

They are allowing other teams a potential competitive advantage in this area and actually lost to Coughlin's Jaguars this year. That loss may not be solely due to Free Agency differences between the two teams but the difference in effective Free Agents brought in by both teams is glaring.




 

[XenoMorph]

(01-17-2018, 04:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: MB and company are a lot like some old guys i know.

Don't understand that inflation is a thing. Still stuck in a time long ago and far away...

but those are the kinda people you want to rent from

[XenoMorph]

(01-17-2018, 06:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: They didn't do their homework on those guys, atleast Odom was pretty great one game against the Packers lol

AB was a big time mistake, Coles was old.


Have to look around the NFL and watch what a grab like Alex Mack did for the Falcons a year ago...

That is how you improve your team in FA.

yeah but Palmer lobbied for Coles... We gave palmer who he wanted.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 05:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: So, for now it seems like a waste of time to talk about 8m, 7m or even 6m, because they haven't been in that ballpark since 2010.

But they have signed bigger free agents in the past.  It is not like they have never done it.  The deals they gave Odom and Bryant are the same as $8 million doller deals today.

Reminds me of how often I was told that the Bengals would NEVER draft a TE or an OG in the first round.

I am in no way predicting we will do it for sure this year, but it is not as impossible as you claim.

[bengalsturntup926]

Actually I'm pretty sure that's how they made the best defense in all time in 2000,I read they added a big free agent every year till they won a ring.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 06:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Have to look around the NFL and watch what a grab like Alex Mack did for the Falcons a year ago...

That is how you improve your team in FA.

Except when you look around the NFL you also see expensive free agents that have been complete busts.

That is the problem when you start talking free agency.  Too many people just look at the good deals and completely ignore the bad ones.