Rotoworld - Bengals want Russell Bodine back

[McC]

(02-10-2018, 05:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why did you refuse to read the quote I was responding to.  Here it is.


That is a lie.  All I did was correct a lie and I get attacked and accused of "propganda".

Why can't we discuss what people really say here?  

Well, not to put words in another's mouth, maybe he should have said...beat playoff teams in the playoffs.  He does not have those skills.  If you say, yes he does, I say prove it.  Since he is ofer in the playoffs, there is zero proof that he can.  None.  Nada.  Zilch.

Now, the only question is which seven words out of this forty word post will you quote?

[Joelist]

Going back to the topic of the thread, as was already pointed out well upthread Bodine has been a handicap every year he has played and to be honest we have not had a "good" OL since roughly 2005. I base this on:

a) Poor rushing game including being utterly inept at short yardage on the ground.

b) The only reason we have not been exposed earlier in pass protection is Andy has one of the (top 2 or top 3 every year) fastest releases in the NFL. But having to get rid of it that fast has a price too - it means plays cannot develop.

Like it or not Bodine has been a prime culprit in both of these issues. He can't hold the point, constantly blocks the wrong man (as evidenced by the constant sight of pass rushers coming unblocked through the C-G gaps) and in general gets no real drive off the snap.

I know Pollack has a good pedigree and getting rid of Piano Man is an achievement (kudos to Lazor for standing his ground), but hearing that they want to keep the worst Center in football two years running sends the message that nothing has been learned. So does hearing from the braintrust that the are not really prioritizing Offensive Line in the offseason.

[BengalChris]

I don't know if Marvin can win a playoff game, eventually.

But I sure do know that he can lose playoff games.

[*Go Cards*]

Agree with Fred that it is difficult coaching with MB holding you back and that they are not the worst.

But that is all I agree with him on, 0 - 7 when it counts does matter too

Am happy with the good seasons especially being a season ticket holder.

Still got to get over that hill and start winning in playoffs as well..

[t3r3e3]

(02-10-2018, 05:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to me ever claiming that was greatness.

People can not prove anything I say wrong so instead thtey make up things and pretend that I said them.  

That is a strawman argument and it is used by people who don't have a real argument.

And 12th out of 32 is 38th percentile.   



waits for someone to claim I said 38th percentile is greatrness

The 62nd percentile refers to the last team in the Playoffs. 1- 12/32= .625. I was also referring to the other poster talking about the Bengals consistently being the 12th team in the Playoffs, or at least out the first week. Wasn’t referring to you., although you have your percentile calculation backwards. By your calc the Browns would be the 100th percentile.

[PDub80]

(02-10-2018, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has beaten both the Pats and the Steelers when they were playoff teams.  It's really plain to see for people who understand reality.

When exactly are you claiming that Marvin lost to the Pats when he had equal talent?

Huh.... Interesting, Fred. When did the Bengals beat the Pats and the Steelers when they were playoff teams?

2014 the Bengals lost to the Patriots in embarrassing fashion 43-17. The Bengals easily had equal (I would argue better) talent than the Patriots. NE's leading running back was some guy named Jonas Gray followed by Shane Vereen.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-10-2018, 11:33 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Huh.... Interesting, Fred. When did the Bengals beat the Pats and the Steelers when they were playoff teams?

2014 the Bengals lost to the Patriots in embarrassing fashion 43-17. The Bengals easily had equal (I would argue better) talent than the Patriots. NE's leading running back was some guy named Jonas Gray followed by Shane Vereen.

Back in 2013, the Bengals beat the Patriots due to there being a torrential downpour when the Patriots had the ball in the 4th quarter that stopped the second the Bengals got the ball. Mother Nature was on their side that day. Lol

They technically beat the 2015 Steelers (once)... and then lost twice to them, including in the playoffs. Same thing happened in 2005. Beat them once, lost to them twice, including in the playoffs.

That's it in Marvin's tenure.

[t3r3e3]

(02-10-2018, 11:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Back in 2013, the Bengals beat the Patriots due to there being a torrential downpour when the Patriots had the ball in the 4th quarter that stopped the second the Bengals got the ball. Mother Nature was on their side that day. Lol

They technically beat the 2015 Steelers (once)... and then lost twice to them, including in the playoffs. Same thing happened in 2005. Beat them once, lost to them twice, including in the playoffs.

That's it in Marvin's tenure.

Pats didn’t have Gronk in the downpour game either.

[PDub80]

(02-10-2018, 11:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Back in 2013, the Bengals beat the Patriots due to there being a torrential downpour when the Patriots had the ball in the 4th quarter that stopped the second the Bengals got the ball. Mother Nature was on their side that day. Lol

They technically beat the 2015 Steelers (once)... and then lost twice to them, including in the playoffs. Same thing happened in 2005. Beat them once, lost to them twice, including in the playoffs.

That's it in Marvin's tenure.

I totally forgot about the monsoon game. It was a gift from God. 13-6 Bengals! As the poster above me just pointed out, the Pats didn't have Gronk. Still, the Bengals D played great and they won. So, I was wrong.... 1 win against the Pats.

With the playoffs, that's my point, right? They weren't actually playoff teams when they beat them. They LOST to the Steelers when they were actually a playoff team.... Twice.

There's a reason there are separate stats for the post season. Post season is high stakes and different than the regular season because of the pressure and circumstances. Beating the Steelers in week 3 or 4 or whatever is different than week 18.

[samhain]

(02-10-2018, 11:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Back in 2013, the Bengals beat the Patriots due to there being a torrential downpour when the Patriots had the ball in the 4th quarter that stopped the second the Bengals got the ball. Mother Nature was on their side that day. Lol

They technically beat the 2015 Steelers (once)... and then lost twice to them, including in the playoffs. Same thing happened in 2005. Beat them once, lost to them twice, including in the playoffs.

That's it in Marvin's tenure.

I could be wrong, but I feel like they may have actually beaten them in the first year of the Brady/Bellichick dynasty.  

This game doesn't count, as Marvin was not yet the HC.  Also, Brady was still a 6th round nobody sitting on the bench behind the great Drew Bledsoe.  I think they may have beaten the world champion Ravens in that same year.  I may have my wires crossed, but I'll go back and check.  Ahhh the pinnacle of the Dick LeBeau era, lol.

EDIT: Holy shit, it's crazier than I thought. The Bengals beat both the reigning champions and the champions of that season in back to back games to open 2001. What's more, they also beat the Steelers! I think that that was the game in which Pittsburgh missed a FG or PAT to end the game. Final record was 6-10.

With those kinds of results, it's a miracle that Mike Brown ever fired LeBeau. In Bengal reality, those kinds of wins buy you some serious credit with the old brain trust. I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Fire Marvin, bring back LeBeau.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-11-2018, 11:00 AM)samhain Wrote: I could be wrong, but I feel like they may have actually beaten them in the first year of the Brady/Bellichick dynasty.  

This game doesn't count, as Marvin was not yet the HC.  Also, Brady was still a 6th round nobody sitting on the bench behind the great Drew Bledsoe.  I think they may have beaten the world champion Ravens in that same year.  I may have my wires crossed, but I'll go back and check.  Ahhh the pinnacle of the Dick LeBeau era, lol.

The great Drew Bledsoe?

Dude was an interception machine.

[samhain]

(02-11-2018, 11:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The great Drew Bledsoe?

Dude was an interception machine.

Sarcasm, sir.

[fredtoast]

(02-10-2018, 11:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Back in 2013, the Bengals beat the Patriots due to there being a torrential downpour when the Patriots had the ball in the 4th quarter that stopped the second the Bengals got the ball. Mother Nature was on their side that day. Lol

Thiis is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

The Bengals held the Patriots out of the end zone for the entire game when it was not raining, but Leonard goes through the mental gymanstics of claiming that the only reason the Bengals won was a fourth quarter rain storm.  If the Pats had been lighting up the scoreboard the whole game and then struggled in the rain I could see some logic in this.  But that is not what happened.

Leonard has to result to the spin machine to save his voictim card.

This is just sad.  Why are some fans happier making up lies to trash the Bengals than accepting that they beat a good team fair and square?  That was one of only 2 gamesin the last decade that the Patriots were held with out a td.  Why wallow in misery and bend over backwards to diminish that accomplishment?

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2018, 12:36 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I totally forgot about the monsoon game. It was a gift from God.

More proof of my point.  Obsess over every mistake ever made.  Memory blocks out anything good that he can't whine and cry about..

And again with the "gift from God" bs.  THE PATRIOTS COULD ONLY SCORE 2 FGS FOR THREE AND A HALF QUARTERS.  THE RAINSTORM WAS 100% MEANINGLESS.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-11-2018, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: More proof of my point.  Obsess over every mistake ever made.  Memory blocks out anything good that he can't whine and cry about..

And again with the "gift from God" bs.  THE PATRIOTS COULD ONLY SCORE 2 FGS FOR THREE AND A HALF QUARTERS.  THE RAINSTORM WAS 100% MEANINGLESS.

Yes, the Bengal defense played fantastically the entire game.  However, I'm not so blind that I didn't notice that monsoon seemed very well timed, at a point where it looked as if the Patriots were gaining some momentum.

To claim that the rainstorm was meaningless is just being obstinate and oppositional to the fact that it did have an impact. Heck, it was raining so hard that we could barely tell what was going on, on the TV screen.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-10-2018, 12:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't defend every move they make.  I just state the facts.

The Bengals are not elite but they are not the worst.

The whole point is we need to strive to be elite.

Not being the worst is no accomplishment.

[t3r3e3]

(02-11-2018, 06:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The whole point is we need to strive to be elite.

Not being the worst is no accomplishment.

True. When ownership is satisfied with merely decent, and does not actively try to become elite, then Wild Card exits are about the best we can hope for. Mike Brown will not make the moves necessary at HC and in FA to position the team as a legitimate Super Bowl contender. The Bengals might make the Playoffs, but no one sees them as a threat to beat the Pats, Steelers, and the Jags if they upgrade QB.

[BengalChris]

I'll repeat, Marvin Lewis might, maybe and theoretically could win in the playoffs.

But, I know 100% for sure that Marvin Lewis can lose to in the playoffs.

If we search history long enough we can find an example or two of Marvin Lewis winning against a playoff team.

There are gobs and gobs of examples of Marvin Lewis losing to playoff teams.

Chances of Marvin Lewis winning a playoff game during his new 2 year contract: 3% according to me. We just might find a LT, we just might win enough in the regular season to back into the playoffs once again and we just might have enough lucky bounces of the ball, rain and/or ref mistakes to win a wildcard game.

Sadly, though we need all 3 of those things to happen and from past experience under Marvin Lewis and Mikey Brown it won't happen or they'll find some way to f- it up, as usual. Even if the team accidentally drafts a good LT, he'll sit on the bench while Andy dodges defenders as they start Ogbuehi try and save face for picking him in the first place. If they some how win enough to back in, then they'll show up to a playoff game completely unprepared, get out coached, out played, Andy will have a bad Andy day and the defense will forget itself. The offense will be the same offense they had all year and the defense will play vanilla, safe soft zone coverage while their personnel strength is man on man.

My version of possible playoff events is based on what Marv and Mikey have done for years.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-11-2018, 06:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The whole point is we need to strive to be elite.

Not being the worst is no accomplishment.

Cincinnati Bengals Football

Commitment to Mediocrity since '91

(Run on your own gas)

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-11-2018, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Thiis is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

The Bengals held the Patriots out of the end zone for the entire game when it was not raining, but Leonard goes through the mental gymanstics of claiming that the only reason the Bengals won was a fourth quarter rain storm.  If the Pats had been lighting up the scoreboard the whole game and then struggled in the rain I could see some logic in this.  But that is not what happened.

Leonard has to result to the spin machine to save his voictim card.

This is just sad.  Why are some fans happier making up lies to trash the Bengals than accepting that they beat a good team fair and square?  That was one of only 2 gamesin the last decade that the Patriots were held with out a td.  Why wallow in misery and bend over backwards to diminish that accomplishment?

The Marvin Lewis lead Bengals have a record of 1 - 5 vs. the Pats and have been flat out gut stomped by them in 3 of those losses ! I'm not going to champion one win as some great accomplishment when ML lead teams regularly spit the bit against any type of good and above competition. 

Moreover Marvin has a record of 8 - 24 vs. the Steelers including a grand total of two wins at PBS ! If you choose to try and spin one of those meaningless wins into some great thing, ok whatever ?

But the majority of us understand the Steelers have made the Bengals into their ***** under ML and regularly take us out behind the woodshed and make us like it. They've beaten and embarrassed us every time it's really mattered !