Isaiah Wynn - Can he succeed at OT?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2018, 03:10 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Well, they said Whit could not play LT coming out of college.  And now he is all-pro.  It could work but if it doesn't they could always move him to inside.  I just hope they sign Nate Soldier as a free agent.  

Whitworth still had better size for prototypical OT compared to Wynn.
I think people are getting hung up on Wynn's size and believing that will greatly limit him.
His on-field technical ability does show he could handle LT duties (I believe at least).

I guess bottom line though is I see a lot of the responses saying "he'd be top-notch OG, so leave him there" and that wasn't the topic.
I get that his best fit might be OG, but I haven't really seen anyone provide evidence explaining why he would NOT succeed at LT.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-29-2018, 08:34 PM)McC Wrote: Perception is reality.  We all know what the prototypical OT looks like, size-wise.

But, as you say, today's pass rushers are shorter guys.  Could it be like QB's, where the 6'5" guy was once considered ideal and shorter guys had to prove themselves and did?

I guess the problem is who would be the first team to play a 6'2" guy at Tackle.

Kelvin Beachum is 6'2-3" with 33.25" arms (just 0.125" longer than Wynn) and had some good years at OT for PIT and NYJ.
Just this past year, Beachum started all 16 games at LT for NYJ and had a respectable PFF score of 72.7.
And Beachum may be of similar stature but Wynn is a better actual football prospect coming out compared to when Beachum came out.
Beachum was a 7th rounder for a reason.

[t3r3e3]

(01-29-2018, 08:34 PM)McC Wrote: Perception is reality.  We all know what the prototypical OT looks like, size-wise.

But, as you say, today's pass rushers are shorter guys.  Could it be like QB's, where the 6'5" guy was once considered ideal and shorter guys had to prove themselves and did?

I guess the problem is who would be the first team to play a 6'2" guy at Tackle.

Steelers already did with Kelvin Beachum. Beachum played decently for several seasons while there, then left in FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-31-2018, 02:02 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Steelers already did with Kelvin Beachum.  Beachum played decently for several seasons while there, then left in FA.

Back in 2015, Beachum has a pass blocking efficiency score of 96.9 out of 100 and a total score of 77.7 PFF grade which is solid.
In 2014, he had a pass blocking efficiency of 97.5, which was best among all the OTs that year. He also had a total PFF grade of 85.6, which was 5th among all OTs.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-jets-need-kelvin-beachum-to-regain-his-old-form

Wynn doesn't lack in the run game like Beachum did/does, so I think Wynn can be as good or better than Beachum and be a quality OT in the NFL.

[Okeana]

Here's the deal. Wynn will be drafted as an offensive lineman and because he's technically so good he will eventually get looks at multiple positions. He was a dominate LT at Georgia and they weren't playing low level talent. I'm bias tho because I think Wynn may technically be the best offensive lineman in this draft.

As a side note I don't see the downside of being a shorter tackle. Lower center of gravity is a plus in my book and he has the arm length of a much taller man.

[3wt]

(01-30-2018, 11:21 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Is the argument a serviceable OT versus a potential all-pro OG? I’ll take the OG.

This.   He looked dominant at OG in the Senior Bowl practices.    I think he's pushed himself into the bottom of the first.

And here's an interesting thing.   Clint Boling did well in his few games at LT.   Take a look at Drew Boylhart's assessment of Boling in the Huddle Report's draft publication the year Boling came out (2011).  Specifically read paragraph 3.

 http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2011profiles/Clint.Boling.htm 

He felt like Boling would be better placed at tackle.   He also wondered why Geno was not given more playing time at Georgia the previous year (2010)

 http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2010profiles/Geno.Atkins.htm

So maybe we permanently move Boling to LT and take two of the many quality interior linemen in this draft?
 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2018, 03:15 PM)3wt Wrote: This.   He looked dominant at OG in the Senior Bowl practices.    I think he's pushed himself into the bottom of the first.

And here's an interesting thing.   Clint Boling did well in his few games at LT.   Take a look at Drew Boylhart's assessment of Boling in the Huddle Report's draft publication the year Boling came out (2011).  Specifically read paragraph 3.

 http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2011profiles/Clint.Boling.htm 

He felt like Boling would be better placed at tackle.   He also wondered why Geno was not given more playing time at Georgia the previous year (2010)

 http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2010profiles/Geno.Atkins.htm

So maybe we permanently move Boling to LT and take two of the many quality interior linemen in this draft?
 

Never heard of Drew Boylhart TBH.
But it's hard to take much in his assessment given he essentially dogs Boling when it comes to playing guard. Boling has been a pretty solid guard in the NFL.

With that said, Boling did just OK at LT at the end of the season.
In the Lions game, Boling had a PFF score of 39.9. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-cincinnati-bengals-26-detroit-lions-17
I don't pay for PFF to see individual game scores, but Boling was not listed as a top 5 performer for the Bengals, so he had a score lower than 81.9.
I assume he was better than 39.9 since he wasn't listed in performances of note (like he was for the Lions game), but to what degree I am not sure.
But maybe Boling could be a quality LT once he has a full offseason to prepare for that.

[*bfine32*]

(01-30-2018, 03:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Kelvin Beachum is 6'2-3" with 33.25" arms (just 0.125" longer than Wynn) and had some good years at OT for PIT and NYJ.
Just this past year, Beachum started all 16 games at LT for NYJ and had a respectable PFF score of 72.7.
And Beachum may be of similar stature but Wynn is a better actual football prospect coming out compared to when Beachum came out.
Beachum was a 7th rounder for a reason.

Most likely because he was a 6'3" OT with 33" arms. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2018, 10:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Most likely because he was a 6'3" OT with 33" arms. 

I’m sure that was part of it, but he also was not good in the run game. He lacked strength.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kelvin-beachum?id=2533442


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3wt]

(02-01-2018, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Never heard of Drew Boylhart TBH.
But it's hard to take much in his assessment given he essentially dogs Boling when it comes to playing guard. Boling has been a pretty solid guard in the NFL.

With that said, Boling did just OK at LT at the end of the season.
In the Lions game, Boling had a PFF score of 39.9. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-cincinnati-bengals-26-detroit-lions-17
I don't pay for PFF to see individual game scores, but Boling was not listed as a top 5 performer for the Bengals, so he had a score lower than 81.9.
I assume he was better than 39.9 since he wasn't listed in performances of note (like he was for the Lions game), but to what degree I am not sure.
But maybe Boling could be a quality LT once he has a full offseason to prepare for that.

Sorry to get back to you so late on this.

I've had mixed feelings about Drew Boylhart (and all other draftniks) over the years.  He used to say that his whole thing was that he was the only one that watched film.

He doesn't say that anymore because everyone watches film now because of the increased availability.   And there's just an element of subjectivity in everyone's assessments:  PFF, Huddle Report, Bucky Brooks (and other former players and coaches), etc.   If it was an exact science there would be a much higher level of effective predictability.

It is fun to go back and look at previous assessments, and Boylharts are very much available as he archives his stuff.  And I was intrigued by this one.

The interesting point was that Drew felt that Boling's strongest performances were at tackle vs guard.  And while Boling has turned out as an above average guard, it would be interesting to see how he performs at tackle after a camp and sustained game exposure to that position.  Whit started off as a guard and grew into a really good tackle.   I think he had better potential physically than Boling does, but Boling might have quicker feet, one of the original knocks on Whit.

No one had a good day against Ziggy Ansah - who is a total beast.  And Boling had a much better day against Suggs who is not chopped liver, which makes me hope Boling was growing into the position.

We'll see.   I just thought it was interesting that his performance was much better than I thought in would be at tackle - especially in light of what Boylhart said in 2011.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-08-2018, 12:18 PM)3wt Wrote: Sorry to get back to you so late on this.

I've had mixed feelings about Drew Boylhart (and all other draftniks) over the years.  He used to say that his whole thing was that he was the only one that watched film.

He doesn't say that anymore because everyone watches film now because of the increased availability.   And there's just an element of subjectivity in everyone's assessments:  PFF, Huddle Report, Bucky Brooks (and other former players and coaches), etc.   If it was an exact science there would be a much higher level of effective predictability.

It is fun to go back and look at previous assessments, and Boylharts are very much available as he archives his stuff.  And I was intrigued by this one.

The interesting point was that Drew felt that Boling's strongest performances were at tackle vs guard.  And while Boling has turned out as an above average guard, it would be interesting to see how he performs at tackle after a camp and sustained game exposure to that position.  Whit started off as a guard and grew into a really good tackle.   I think he had better potential physically than Boling does, but Boling might have quicker feet, one of the original knocks on Whit.

No one had a good day against Ziggy Ansah - who is a total beast.  And Boling had a much better day against Suggs who is not chopped liver, which makes me hope Boling was growing into the position.

We'll see.   I just thought it was interesting that his performance was much better than I thought in would be at tackle - especially in light of what Boylhart said in 2011.

I have no issues with the Bengals attempting to make a perma-move to OT for Boling.
But because of the uncertainty, it's why I actually would like Isaiah Wynn given he is practically in the same boat. Experience at both LT and OG.
Plug one at LT the other at OG.

[Steve]

(01-29-2018, 09:37 PM)Synric Wrote: Looking at Wynn you can tell why analysts are trying to project him at center. All the speed and athleticism of a tackle but the perfect size to put in the middle of the line.  He fits a zone blocking center to a T.

if we got him i'd like him to play OC...
 I see him going off the board in the early part of rd #2....
I just don't think he's big enough to handle a OT position long term.....would get pushed backwards too much....