Which NFL franchises never to have won Super Bowl are closest to title breakthrough?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-02-2018, 12:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Lol at the suggestion the Browns are closer than the Bengals. That organization is an absolute dumpster fire. The Bengals are 2 years removed from a 12-4 season. We fix the Oline we’re right back in the mix. They have to find a franchise QB, which they haven’t been able to do in decades.

Yep, completely agree. Fixing the O-line is what this team really needs to compete.

The Clowns need all kinds of things to go their way.

In the end it is up to the players on the field and like you said, just 2 years ago we were right there with seconds
left about to win that first elusive playoff win. Sucks the way it turned out but this is true and who knows how far
that team goes after getting that win.

(02-02-2018, 01:01 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The Browns have a ton of cap space, a pile of high picks, and a quality GM.  The Browns also have a good o line, two decent backs, a stud WR, and pass catching TE.  The front 4 on the defense is stout, plus they have some talent at LB and S.  You are basing your opinion off the past.  With a QB the Browns are 6-7 wins better next year.  

The Browns are the only team i guarantee can screw this up...

(02-02-2018, 01:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sorry but I don’t trust a team that passes on Watson to trade down for Jabrill Peppers when they don’t have a QB. That wasn’t ancient history, it was just last year. They also thought AJ McCarron was the answer...

Bengals are FAR closer than the Browns. Fix the Oline (which they’ve already started by firing Alexander) and they could be back to double digit wins.

Agreed again, the Browns don't know what is going on. Atleast we have something with these new coaches.

Namely Pollack and Van Pelt to help out the Offense so the Defense is not on the field all the damn time.

(02-02-2018, 10:05 AM)Wyche Wrote: That was also the former GM.  

The Bengals will never win as long as Mike Brown is in charge.  The team will always have a fatal flaw that he will not address with FA because he needs to pocket some of that rollover coin.  We have 27 years of failure to go by.....at least the Stains made changes, and their future is unknown.  

Sure, the Bengals may make the playoffs again before the Browns, but as long as Merv strolls those sidelines, it's all for naught.

Sorry, but having 0-15 and 0-27 leading the way doesn't exactly instill confidence in anyone paying attention either.  That's both ancient AND recent history.

This is all true, but you honestly have more faith in the Browns than us winning a Superbowl Wyche?

MB will not live forever, Marv will be gone in a couple of years, PA is gone and replaced by a very good O-line coach etc.

Of course i am down on this team with Marv being back but i just cannot grapple the concept of the Browns winning a SB before us...

Even with a new GM.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 02:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is all true, but you honestly have more faith in the Browns than us winning a Superbowl Wyche?

MB will not live forever, Marv will be gone in a couple of years, PA is gone and replaced by a very good O-line coach etc.

Of course i am down on this team with Marv being back but i just cannot grapple the concept of the Browns winning a SB before us...

Even with a new GM.

To be honest, I don't think either one of them will be hoisting the hardware any time soon. :andy:


That said, I DO think the Browns have made some interesting and necessary moves in an attempt to better themselves.  They essentially threw away the last two seasons in order to have money to chase FAs, and Dorsey has had some good drafts out in KC.  He has also scouted and been a personnel director with Mike Holgrem in Green Bay and Seattle.  The man has been a part of rebuilding three downtrodden franchises already.  He also played in the NFL.  Joe Thomas has gone to bat for Hue as well.  The players like him.


Now, get to us......Mediocre Merv and Mike "Junior Justice" Brown.

Which scenario seems more likely to you?  One has a talent problem, the other has an administration problem.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-02-2018, 03:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: To be honest, I don't think either one of them will be hoisting the hardware any time soon. :andy:


That said, I DO think the Browns have made some interesting and necessary moves in an attempt to better themselves.  They essentially threw away the last two seasons in order to have money to chase FAs, and Dorsey has had some good drafts out in KC.  He has also scouted and been a personnel director with Mike Holgrem in Green Bay and Seattle.  The man has been a part of rebuilding three downtrodden franchises already.  He also played in the NFL.  Joe Thomas has gone to bat for Hue as well.  The players like him.


Now, get to us......Mediocre Merv and Mike "Junior Justice" Brown.

Which scenario seems more likely to you?  One has a talent problem, the other has an administration problem.

Didn't know all that about Dorsey, so some great points. We all know that MB is cheap in FA and that Marv cannot get his
players ready for the Playoffs but i think you have to get to the Playoffs first to have a chance and i think we have a much
better chance at this then the Browns in this Division.

The Browns will always have a tough time competing in the AFC North without a decent QB and until they get one of these
i cannot give them much of a thought.

With us adding Pollack and Van Pelt we might be able to carry Marv's lame ass to a SB, yah never know.

Plus i am sure Lazor, Pollack, Van Pelt and Austin will all be in the running for HC in a couple years.

Mikeyboy won't live forever either.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 03:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Didn't know all that about Dorsey, so some great points. We all know that MB is cheap in FA and that Marv cannot get his
players ready for the Playoffs but i think you have to get to the Playoffs first to have a chance and i think we have a much
better chance at this then the Browns in this Division.

The Browns will always have a tough time competing in the AFC North without a decent QB and until they get one of these
i cannot give them much of a thought.

With us adding Pollack and Van Pelt we might be able to carry Marv's lame ass to a SB, yah never know.

Plus i am sure Lazor, Pollack, Van Pelt and Austin will all be in the running for HC in a couple years.

Mikeyboy won't live forever either.

I agree with that....wholeheartedly.  We will see how this all unfolds during FA and the draft.  As I said earlier, if they pick up a serviceable starter in FA or the draft, they could make some noise.  Look at the names at QB in FA.  A LOT of serviceable stop gaps to potential solid starters out there.  Some plausible trades too.  The Ravens are beginning to fade.....and we're currently re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  It could happen sooner than a lot of people think.

I also said in another reply to Nicoma that we might catch lightning in a bottle......and that I'm hoping Katie makes the necessary adjustments to move into modern era competition.  Time will tell on that, but I'm convinced Son of Paul will most certainly have to luck into a SB; regardless of coach(es).

[depthchart]

(02-02-2018, 04:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree with that....wholeheartedly.  We will see how this all unfolds during FA and the draft.  As I said earlier, if they pick up a serviceable starter in FA or the draft, they could make some noise.  Look at the names at QB in FA.  A LOT of serviceable stop gaps to potential solid starters out there.  Some plausible trades too.  The Ravens are beginning to fade.....and we're currently re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  It could happen sooner than a lot of people think.

I also said in another reply to Nicoma that we might catch lightning in a bottle......and that I'm hoping Katie makes the necessary adjustments to move into modern era competition.  Time will tell on that, but I'm convinced Son of Paul will most certainly have to luck into a SB; regardless of coach(es).

Yes but can daughter of son of Paul move into modern era competition with father of Katie looking over daughter of son of Paul's shoulder.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 04:08 PM)depthchart Wrote: Yes but can daughter of son of Paul move into modern era competition with father of Katie looking over daughter of son of Paul's shoulder.

Depends on if Duke Tobin's uncle's step-daughter's cousin twice removed's nephew's roommate is there "working behind the scenes".

[sandwedge]

(02-02-2018, 03:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: To be honest, I don't think either one of them will be hoisting the hardware any time soon. :andy:


That said, I DO think the Browns have made some interesting and necessary moves in an attempt to better themselves.  They essentially threw away the last two seasons in order to have money to chase FAs, and Dorsey has had some good drafts out in KC.  He has also scouted and been a personnel director with Mike Holgrem in Green Bay and Seattle.  The man has been a part of rebuilding three downtrodden franchises already.  He also played in the NFL.  Joe Thomas has gone to bat for Hue as well.  The players like him.


Now, get to us......Mediocre Merv and Mike "Junior Justice" Brown.

Which scenario seems more likely to you?  One has a talent problem, the other has an administration problem.

I honestly don't think Hue is any better than Marvin as a HC. 

[samhain]

(02-02-2018, 04:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree with that....wholeheartedly.  We will see how this all unfolds during FA and the draft.  As I said earlier, if they pick up a serviceable starter in FA or the draft, they could make some noise.  Look at the names at QB in FA.  A LOT of serviceable stop gaps to potential solid starters out there.  Some plausible trades too.  The Ravens are beginning to fade.....and we're currently re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  It could happen sooner than a lot of people think.

I also said in another reply to Nicoma that we might catch lightning in a bottle......and that I'm hoping Katie makes the necessary adjustments to move into modern era competition.  Time will tell on that, but I'm convinced Son of Paul will most certainly have to luck into a SB; regardless of coach(es).

I think the Browns are at a make or break moment.  They can do what they've failed to do since they became a team again and get it right with any college quarterback they choose.  They can also get him a nice weapon soon after.  

I like their position compared to the Bengals.  They at least try to play in all aspects of roster improvement rather than the Bengals philosophy of drafting and signing zero impact FAs.  That's guaranteed failure in this era of the NFL.

Not a single team in a conference title game didn't sign an impact free agent this offseason.  Not one.  The Vikings rebuilt their o-line.  The Pats added Gilmore.  The Jags spent a ton of money in FA over the last couple of years.  The Eagles bought a New receiving corps.  

I'd add that every team that showed dramatic improvement this year used FA as a tool.  The Bengals will never do this, therefore will always be attempting to compete with a self-imposed disadvantage.  They aren't serious about winning a title.  They may want to do it as a side effect of being, you know, at team in the league that plays games, I guess but it's not a driving force for ownership.  

They won't do it when they suck.  They won't do it when they get 1 or 2 impact players away as they were in 2013 and 2015.  that fact alone means they basically disqualify themselves in a way that the Browns don't.  The Browns will buy a player if they see fit.  the Bengals will not.  If the Browns somehow manage to get a quarterback, then I think we can easily expect them to exceed all the Bengals have done in the Lewis era.   

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 04:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I honestly don't think Hue is any better than Marvin as a HC. 

Prolly not.....but he has a proven, if somewhat volatile, OC to ease some of the burden now.  If they keep giving Williams some players, the defense could improve as well.

(02-02-2018, 04:26 PM)samhain Wrote: I think the Browns are at a make or break moment.  They can do what they've failed to do since they became a team again and get it right with any college quarterback they choose.  They can also get him a nice weapon soon after.  

I like their position compared to the Bengals.  They at least try to play in all aspects of roster improvement rather than the Bengals philosophy of drafting and signing zero impact FAs.  That's guaranteed failure in this era of the NFL.

Not a single team in a conference title game didn't sign an impact free agent this offseason.  Not one.  The Vikings rebuilt their o-line.  The Pats added Gilmore.  The Jags spent a ton of money in FA over the last couple of years.  The Eagles bought a New receiving corps.  

I'd add that every team that showed dramatic improvement this year used FA as a tool.  The Bengals will never do this, therefore will always be attempting to compete with a self-imposed disadvantage.  They aren't serious about winning a title.  They may want to do it as a side effect of being, you know, at team in the league that plays games, I guess but it's not a driving force for ownership.  

They won't do it when they suck.  They won't do it when they get 1 or 2 impact players away as they were in 2013 and 2015.  that fact alone means they basically disqualify themselves in a way that the Browns don't.  The Browns will buy a player if they see fit.  the Bengals will not.  If the Browns somehow manage to get a quarterback, then I think we can easily expect them to exceed all the Bengals have done in the Lewis era.   

Gotta agree.....and with Josh Gordon back, they have a legit WR1.

[samhain]

(02-02-2018, 04:33 PM)Wyche Wrote: Prolly not.....but he has a proven, if somewhat volatile, OC to ease some of the burden now.  If they keep giving Williams some players, the defense could improve as well.



Gotta agree.....and with Josh Gordon back, they have a legit WR1.

And they really don't even have to draft a qb.  If they're tired of screwing up drafting them, they could sign a known commodity like Cousins, eliminate the guess work and spend the picks elsewhere.  They already have the pieces in place in the trenches.  We have jack squat on the OL, and are apparently intensely focused on keeping it's weakest link here for a long time.  

Cleveland mgmt has been awful forever, but they change.  Eventually there's potential for it to work one day.  The Bengal model has never worked in achieving the main goal of an NFL team.  Even when they have good teams, they self-sabotage and stagnate every time.  Instead of changing, they regress and double down on failure as they are doing at this very moment. 

There's a low ceiling on what a Mike Brown-owned team can accomplish.  There isn't one on Cleveland's ownership.  They keep changing and altering themselves.  By that alone, they have a better shot than the Bengals at figuring it out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 04:50 PM)samhain Wrote: And they really don't even have to draft a qb.  If they're tired of screwing up drafting them, they could sign a known commodity like Cousins, eliminate the guess work and spend the picks elsewhere.  They already have the pieces in place in the trenches.  We have jack squat on the OL, and are apparently intensely focused on keeping it's weakest link here for a long time.  

Cleveland mgmt has been awful forever, but they change.  Eventually there's potential for it to work one day.  The Bengal model has never worked in achieving the main goal of an NFL team.  Even when they have good teams, they self-sabotage and stagnate every time.  Instead of changing, they regress and double down on failure as they are doing at this very moment. 

There's a low ceiling on what a Mike Brown-owned team can accomplish.  There isn't one on Cleveland's ownership.  They keep changing and altering themselves.  By that alone, they have a better shot than the Bengals at figuring it out.

Agree again.  Look at the FA prospects at QB.  Cousins, Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford, and the POTENTIALS of Garropolo, Brees, and McCarron.  Sure, some of those guys will stay put, but there are at least 4 very serviceable picks there that could be had if they choose to continually bolster the roster through the draft while skipping this year's QB crop.

[Tiger Teeth]

(02-02-2018, 04:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agree again.  Look at the FA prospects at QB.  Cousins, Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford, and the POTENTIALS of Garropolo, Brees, and McCarron.  Sure, some of those guys will stay put, but there are at least 4 very serviceable picks there that could be had if they choose to continually bolster the roster through the draft while skipping this year's QB crop.

I read somewhere (can't remember) that had Cousins going to Denver or Minnesota.  He said something to the effect that the money was not as important as possibly winning a Championship.  I think he would make the Broncos a legit team again.  But I gathered he was saying he wouldn't go to the Browns, even if the money was a little better.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-02-2018, 05:06 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I read somewhere (can't remember) that had Cousins going to Denver or Minnesota.  He said something to the effect that the money was not as important as possibly winning a Championship.  I think he would make the Broncos a legit team again.  But I gathered he was saying he wouldn't go to the Browns, even if the money was a little better.

Yes, I read that too.....but if he goes to Minny (probably the best case for him), that frees up three other good to decent QBs.

[Tiger Teeth]

(02-02-2018, 05:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, I read that too.....but if he goes to Minny (probably the best case for him), that frees up three other good to decent QBs.

Good point.  

[Whatever]

(02-01-2018, 05:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: If they hit a homerun at QB in the draft, or get a good one in FA, look out.  They've got the cap space to make some moves, with Dorsey at GM, the next few years (what they set up for when they dumped everyone) could get interesting.

Meanwhile, we've got the 0-fer clan running things here.  Had there been actual change in Cincinnati this offseason, my outlook wouldn't be so grim.

The Browns have blown more chances to get a franchise QB than Marvin has blown playoff games.  

[*Nately120*]

(02-02-2018, 06:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Browns have blown more chances to get a franchise QB than Marvin has blown playoff games.  

And they've fired the people who blew it . We....haven't.  That may be what gives them hope.

The Jaguars were 3-13 last year and they played the invincible Patriots in the AFC championship game this year. Hope springs eternal with teams that actually do things. Just saying.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-02-2018, 04:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree with that....wholeheartedly.  We will see how this all unfolds during FA and the draft.  As I said earlier, if they pick up a serviceable starter in FA or the draft, they could make some noise.  Look at the names at QB in FA.  A LOT of serviceable stop gaps to potential solid starters out there.  Some plausible trades too.  The Ravens are beginning to fade.....and we're currently re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  It could happen sooner than a lot of people think.

I also said in another reply to Nicoma that we might catch lightning in a bottle......and that I'm hoping Katie makes the necessary adjustments to move into modern era competition.  Time will tell on that, but I'm convinced Son of Paul will most certainly have to luck into a SB; regardless of coach(es).

Agree with this.

(02-02-2018, 04:50 PM)samhain Wrote: And they really don't even have to draft a qb.  If they're tired of screwing up drafting them, they could sign a known commodity like Cousins, eliminate the guess work and spend the picks elsewhere.  They already have the pieces in place in the trenches.  We have jack squat on the OL, and are apparently intensely focused on keeping it's weakest link here for a long time.  

Cleveland mgmt has been awful forever, but they change.  Eventually there's potential for it to work one day.  The Bengal model has never worked in achieving the main goal of an NFL team.  Even when they have good teams, they self-sabotage and stagnate every time.  Instead of changing, they regress and double down on failure as they are doing at this very moment. 

There's a low ceiling on what a Mike Brown-owned team can accomplish.  There isn't one on Cleveland's ownership.  They keep changing and altering themselves.  By that alone, they have a better shot than the Bengals at figuring it out.

If the Browns got Cousins or Keenum i could see them making some noise. But who knows they might just keep changing
and bench one of them when they have a bad game lol

Going to have to see them stick with a QB for a bit. They never have even when one played well.

(02-02-2018, 06:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Browns have blown more chances to get a franchise QB than Marvin has blown playoff games.  

No doubt. The Browns are the Clowns for this very reason.

Marv sucks but atleast he can get his team into the Playoffs and hasn't went into a stretch near as bad as Hue in his career.

(02-02-2018, 07:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And they've fired the people who blew it . We....haven't.  That may be what gives them hope.

The Jaguars were 3-13 last year and they played the invincible Patriots in the AFC championship game this year.  Hope springs eternal with teams that actually do things.  Just saying.

I definately agree with this but moving on from PA was a HUGE move for us even if we didn't fire him.

Getting Pollack so quick was also a very non-Bengal like move...

[samhain]

(02-02-2018, 06:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Browns have blown more chances to get a franchise QB than Marvin has blown playoff games.  

The Bengals have had stability at the quarterback position in every season since 2004.  The only exception was the 2011 season when Andy was a rookie and nobody really knew what to expect.  Even then, he exceeded expectations by most accounts.  Palmer was a top notch player at the position when he had a capable offensive line.

This team has won exactly as many playoff games as the Browns with that stability.  They did so little to help Palmer that he quit football for half a season.  

The Browns just need that one thing to go right to break the cycle.  We need a monumental shift in organizational philosophy in an organization that fears change more than anything else.