Are The Steelers Good or Just Lucky?

[JS-Steelerfan]

(02-12-2018, 11:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Wow.

Steelers fans really are blind and clueless.

Stats can't show who outplayed who most of the game.

Let's pretend that they can, though.

If Warner doesn't make that stupid play and Arizona ends up scoring, the Cardinals lead for every second of the second half and those 20 seconds or so of the first half.

Watch the game again (actually, it might be your first time watching it since you're so clueless about what happened) and see that the Cardinals were the better team.

Wait ..are you actually assuming that the game would’ve turned out exactly the same with exactly the same second half scoring had Harrison not intercepted and scored? That’s highly unlikely. If the Cardinals score there, both teams’ subsequent play calling would’ve been different, resulting in a completely unique second half, the result of which is essentially unknowable.

[Captain Obvious]

(02-12-2018, 10:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I disagree that not every team gets lucky, and, even if they do, not to the level that the Steelers got lucky.

Every team to win the super bowl has some kind of luck. It takes a lot of different things to happen to go all the way. To say not every team gets lucky to win the super bowl shows your ignorance and blind hatred towards the Steelers are stronger than your grasp on reality and common sense.

[Captain Obvious]

(02-13-2018, 01:40 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Wait ..are you actually assuming that the game would’ve turned out exactly the same with exactly the same second half scoring had Harrison not intercepted and scored? That’s highly unlikely.  If the Cardinals score there, both teams’ subsequent play calling would’ve been different, resulting in a completely unique second half, the result of which is essentially unknowable.

I'm with you. I guarantee both teams play calling would have been different. When you walk into halftime with the lead, your play calling is drastically different than when you're ahead. 

[BFritz21]

(02-13-2018, 01:40 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Wait ..are you actually assuming that the game would’ve turned out exactly the same with exactly the same second half scoring had Harrison not intercepted and scored? That’s highly unlikely.  If the Cardinals score there, both teams’ subsequent play calling would’ve been different, resulting in a completely unique second half, the result of which is essentially unknowable.

I'm not saying they would have, but the Cardinals were the better team.

If you'll notice, his comment was that the game would have gone the same by using those stats, which I argued against.

(02-13-2018, 02:52 AM)Captain Obvious Wrote: Every team to win the super bowl has some kind of luck. It takes a lot of different things to happen to go all the way. To say not every team gets lucky to win the super bowl shows your ignorance and blind hatred towards the Steelers are stronger than your grasp on reality and common sense.

Not as lucky as knocking out the best player on a team and one of the best QBs in the league on the first play or a QB throwing an interception from the 3 with time running out in the half that gets returned for a TD.  

Your ignorance and blind homerism towards the Steelers causes you to be blind to logic and obvious points.

[Captain Obvious]

(02-13-2018, 03:12 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm not saying they would have, but the Cardinals were the better team.

If you'll notice, his comment was that the game would have gone the same by using those stats, which I argued against.

Not as lucky as knocking out the best player on a team and one of the best QBs in the league on the first play or a QB throwing an interception from the 3 with time running out in the half that gets returned for a TD.  

Your ignorance and blind homerism towards the Steelers causes you to be blind to logic and obvious points.

The Eagles had a backup QB win the SB, The Steelers couldn't win the Superbowl with a backup. There goes your theory that no team is as lucky as the Steelers. Now you can stop this whole blind hatred of the Steelers and your obvious anti-Steelers homerism. Your fellow Bengals fans are embarrassed to admit they like the same team as you.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(02-13-2018, 03:12 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm not saying they would have, but the Cardinals were the better team.

If you'll notice, his comment was that the game would have gone the same by using those stats, which I argued against.

No it wasn’t.  It was that the Steelers were mostly in control of the game that was actually played, an effective counter to your argument that the Cardinals were the better team in that game.  

You are, once again, trying to win argument by going against what no one is saying.  That may be an effective tactic in your own head, but it doesn't work out here in the real world.  

[BFritz21]

(02-13-2018, 03:58 AM)Captain Obvious Wrote: The Eagles had a backup QB win the SB, The Steelers couldn't win the Superbowl with a backup. There goes your theory that no team is as lucky as the Steelers. Now you can stop this whole blind hatred of the Steelers and your obvious anti-Steelers homerism. Your fellow Bengals fans are embarrassed to admit they like the same team as you.

Different story because of the style of play that Carson played and how much better he was than Kitna.

The majority of teams can’t win a playoff game against a good team with a player who is nowhere near as good as the core of your team having to step in and play.

(02-13-2018, 08:42 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: No it wasn’t.  It was that the Steelers were mostly in control of the game that was actually played, an effective counter to your argument that the Cardinals were the better team in that game.  

You are, once again, trying to win argument by going against what no one is saying.  That may be an effective tactic in your own head, but it doesn't work out here in the real world.  

Wow. I have never once argued that the Steelers didn’t win the actual game, but we are dealing with probabilities and likelihood of things happening if the Steelers weren’t so lucky.

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 10:33 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Different story because of the style of play that Carson played and how much better he was than Kitna.

The majority of teams can’t win a playoff game against a good team with a player who is nowhere near as good as the core of your team having to step in and play.

Wow. I have never once argued that the Steelers didn’t win the actual game, but we are dealing with probabilities and likelihood of things happening if the Steelers weren’t so lucky.

Cedrick Wilson had over 100 yards receiving against the Bengals that day.





Cedirck...Wilson.

The Bengals DEFENSE lost that game.

[BFritz21]

(02-13-2018, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: Cedrick Wilson had over 100 yards receiving against the Bengals that day.





Cedirck...Wilson.

The Bengals DEFENSE lost that game.

Like I said, whole team was deflated, but Palmer overcame bad defense all year.

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 11:03 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Like I said, whole team was deflated, but Palmer overcame bad defense all year.

Like I said...doesn't matter.  The defense couldn't handle the bigger stage.

No guarantee the Bengals win WITH Palmer.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(02-13-2018, 10:33 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Different story because of the style of play that Carson played and how much better he was than Kitna.

The majority of teams can’t win a playoff game against a good team with a player who is nowhere near as good as the core of your team having to step in and play.

Wow. I have never once argued that the Steelers didn’t win the actual game, but we are dealing with probabilities and likelihood of things happening if the Steelers weren’t so lucky.

When did I say you argued that?  You keep on inserting things into what you think I said ... 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

The simple truth is, it's a little of both in a lot of cases.....blowout SB wins notwithstanding.  I mean, the 9ers got real lucky against us in SB XXIII.  We dropped a sure INT, lost Krumrie, Boomer's shoulder was shot, then the final drive.  You have to have a little of both.

[BFritz21]

(02-13-2018, 11:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: Like I said...doesn't matter.  The defense couldn't handle the bigger stage.

No guarantee the Bengals win WITH Palmer.

No guarantee but it seems likely.

(02-13-2018, 12:06 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: When did I say you argued that?  You keep on inserting things into what you think I said ... 

He was using stats to say that the Steelers were the better team in the game, when I was pointing out that, if not for the one fluke play that the Steelers got lucky on, then the stats he was using would show that the Cardinals were the better team in the game.

You argued that they were in control of the actual game that was played, when I'm just pointing out that they weren't in control because they were outplayed.

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 02:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: No guarantee but it seems likely.

Not at all.

As has been pointed out:

• The teams had split games (road team winning) during the season.
• The Bengals maintained a lead through half time
• The offense adjusted to the running game
• The DEFENSE fell apart...Palmer didn't play defense.
  

That game was a toss up from the beginning.  And, again, given how Marvin Lewis coached teams did in the playoffs every other time it was CERTAINLY not likely they would have won this time either.

[Captain Obvious]

(02-13-2018, 10:33 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Different story because of the style of play that Carson played and how much better he was than Kitna.

The majority of teams can’t win a playoff game against a good team with a player who is nowhere near as good as the core of your team having to step in and play.

Wow. I have never once argued that the Steelers didn’t win the actual game, but we are dealing with probabilities and likelihood of things happening if the Steelers weren’t so lucky.

Fine, I can't reason with you. You have no common sense. The only thing that makes sense to you is the Steelers are the biggest cheaters ever, they are the luckiest team that gets all the breaks because they buy the refs off. Their qb is a rapist who should be in jail. Their fans are fat, ugly hillbillies that live in trailers with no electricity or plumbing and can't walk erect. Did I miss anything? What exactly was the point in making this post when all you do is argue everything anyone says that the Steelers aren't just lucky? This whole post has to be the biggest waste of bandwidth on this forum because your rage against the Steelers. Oh by the way, Mike Mitchell is the greatest human being to ever walk this Earth. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-13-2018, 04:46 PM)Captain Obvious Wrote: Fine, I can't reason with you. You have no common sense. The only thing that makes sense to you is the Steelers are the biggest cheaters ever, they are the luckiest team that gets all the breaks because they buy the refs off. Their qb is a rapist who should be in jail. Their fans are fat, ugly hillbillies that live in trailers with no electricity or plumbing and can't walk erect. Did I miss anything? What exactly was the point in making this post when all you do is argue everything anyone says that the Steelers aren't just lucky? This whole post has to be the biggest waste of bandwidth on this forum because your rage against the Steelers. Oh by the way, Mike Mitchell is the greatest human being to ever walk this Earth. 

Wait......you mean none of that is unequivocally true?

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 04:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: Wait......you mean none of that is unequivocally true?

Only the last sentence.  

[bengalguy71]

(02-13-2018, 12:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: The simple truth is, it's a little of both in a lot of cases.....blowout SB wins notwithstanding.  I mean, the 9ers got real lucky against us in SB XXIII.  We dropped a sure INT, lost Krumrie, Boomer's shoulder was shot, then the final drive.  You have to have a little of both.

Not to mention we just happen to draw the best HC, QB, and team in the NFL in BOTH SB appearances.

[BFritz21]

(02-13-2018, 03:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: Not at all.

As has been pointed out:

• The teams had split games (road team winning) during the season.
• The Bengals maintained a lead through half time
• The offense adjusted to the running game
• The DEFENSE fell apart...Palmer didn't play defense.
  

That game was a toss up from the beginning.  And, again, given how Marvin Lewis coached teams did in the playoffs every other time it was CERTAINLY not likely they would have won this time either.

It wouldn't have been a toss-up after the first play if Carson doesn't go down.

The defense wouldn't have been on the field as much if Palmer hadn't gotten injured.

We would have scored on the opening drive instead of having to settle for 3.  

We would have had all the momentum, probably scored once or twice more before half, and then the halftime meltdown doesn't happen.

(02-13-2018, 04:46 PM)Captain Obvious Wrote: Fine, I can't reason with you. You have no common sense. The only thing that makes sense to you is the Steelers are the biggest cheaters ever, they are the luckiest team that gets all the breaks because they buy the refs off. Their qb is a rapist who should be in jail. Their fans are fat, ugly hillbillies that live in trailers with no electricity or plumbing and can't walk erect. Did I miss anything? What exactly was the point in making this post when all you do is argue everything anyone says that the Steelers aren't just lucky? This whole post has to be the biggest waste of bandwidth on this forum because your rage against the Steelers. Oh by the way, Mike Mitchell is the greatest human being to ever walk this Earth. 

See, I use logic there and you make up things that I never even said or are irrelevant.  

Let's look at them, shall we?

-never said that they're cheaters, but I'm guessing you're referring to the cheap shot on Carson.  It's hilarious how you try and act like it had no impact on the game and how it's not likely that we would have won.  Being down 0-7 instead of 0-3 with our offense having momentum would have made all the difference, especially with the best player on our team still on the field.  Despite all that, we still gave you a game, but you're right, the injury was a minor point.

-when did I ever suggest the refs were bias in this thread?  Why would it be relevant to bring up?  It's not.  Pretty much like every other sentence in this post, it's empty rhetoric that you use to try and make your post look stronger, but anyone with an ounce of common sense or at least a third grade education sees right through it.  I'm sure the other Steelers fans are liking the post, though 

-your QB is a known rapist who should be in jail and even your fans don't deny that.  Once again, though, irrelevant to this thread and empty rhetoric.

-when did I say their fans are their fans are fat, ugly hillbillies that live in trailers with no electricity or plumbing and can't walk erect?  Once again, empty rhetoric used to try and make your post seems like it has any substance, but it doesn't and this is one of the most worthless posts to ever litter this board.

You just throw out constant bullshit......  pretty much like every other Steelers fan, but it's funny to see 

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 07:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It wouldn't have been a toss-up after the first play if Carson doesn't go down.

The defense wouldn't have been on the field as much if Palmer hadn't gotten injured.

We would have scored on the opening drive instead of having to settle for 3.  

We would have had all the momentum, probably scored once or twice more before half, and then the halftime meltdown doesn't happen.

So the first time the Steelers went to Cincinnati that season the Bengals kicked a field goal to score first...and never lead the game again:

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28613/CIN_Gamebook.pdf

Palmer had a rough game


Ben had a better game but didn't pass much at all


The Steelers dominated the running game


AT Cincinnati.

In the second game it was even closer...but the Bengals pulled away late after trailing early.
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28710/PIT_Gamebook.pdf



Palmer played better, but so did Ben (minus the INTs)


And the Bengals D contained the Steelers running game.

Something they couldn't do in the playoffs...just like the first game...which the Bengals lost....with Carson Palmer playing.