I feel big changes on the way.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-22-2018, 07:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think this offseason will be like 2011 when we rebuilt our defense through free agency, except this year it will be the offense.

Now I will admit that we only signed one free agent that was more than a bargain basement project (Nate Clements 2yr $10.5 million), but that is still one more than usual.  Then we signed two free agent LBs who were *gasp* less than 30 years old (27 yr old Manny Lawson 1 yr $3 million, 28 yr old Thomas Howard 2 yr $6.5 million).  And even though we failed to sign Donte Whitner the fact that we made an offer that he almost accepted before taking 3 yr $12 million from the Fort Niners proves that we were TRYING.

That was also tyhe same offseason that we replaced our Offensive Coordinator Bob "Blue Eyes" Bratkowski with Jay Gruden.

Some people around here act like the Bengals never make these kind of moves, but this was just 8 years ago.  And our offense last year was the worst it has been since 2008 when Palmer was out with injury.

I agree that the Bengals don't operate like this very often, but it has been a long time since we had an offense as bad as last year.  So I think they will loosen the purse strings in free agency this year.

What about the comp picks for AJ and Hill? 

 
They'll actually get a third round comp pick If they stay under $9M APY (or something like that). So that may make it hard to be "buyers" in FA.
 
They also need to lose more UFAs than they sign. Eifert also seem like comp pick candidates if the Bengals don't re-sign them.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-23-2018, 01:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know about Mike having any more influence in the draft, and I don't see the draft as having much of an influence on free agency

But you are 100% correct about the contracts for Dunlap, Atkins, and Dennard.  The Bengals will not have as much cap flexibility as they did in 2011.

I don't think MB has as much pull in the draft as he used to. I think he's letting Tobin make those decisions now, so when he retires he's comfortable knowing it's in good hands.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-23-2018, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like the part where the team removed pieces of clothing from the life size cut out of the owner until she was naked.

Is our lockerroom ready for Mike Brown in pasties and a g-string?

Alexander took it with him...

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-23-2018, 01:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  ....they should not be above rebuke just because they claim it is just their opinion and no one is allowed to try and prove them wrong.

This pretty much summarizes you as a whole.  You can't say someone's opinion is wrong.  It is their opinion.  It isn't yours.  

[Shake n Blake]

(02-22-2018, 08:43 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: The team tried to improve just 8 years ago...

...and even that is debatable.

- Nate Clements was only signed because we let Johnathan Joseph go. Was this really an upgrade?
- The other signings were still Bengals-eque. Lawson was considered a bust and Howard sat the bench the year before we signed him.
- Some believe we only fired Brat because Palmer demanded a trade. It still seems odd that we didn't fire Brat until after the Senior Bowl. 

Our problems on offense are almost entirely on the line. I doubt we're going to find true upgrades for those positions as cheaply as we did with Howard and Lawson, who costed us what, $6.5 million combined? I'm not saying they won't do it. I always try to keep an open mind, but we'll see. They'll need to open the wallet a bit for a true upgrade. 

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2018, 03:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This pretty much summarizes you as a whole.  You can't say someone's opinion is wrong.  It is their opinion.  It isn't yours.  

I don't want to take this thread off the rails, but I can absolutely tell someone their opinion is wrong.

What if you said that in your opinion 2 + 2 = 13?  Does that make it correct just because it is your opinion?

[WeezyBengal]

(02-22-2018, 07:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think this offseason will be like 2011 when we rebuilt our defense through free agency, except this year it will be the offense.

Now I will admit that we only signed one free agent that was more than a bargain basement project (Nate Clements 2yr $10.5 million), but that is still one more than usual.  Then we signed two free agent LBs who were *gasp* less than 30 years old (27 yr old Manny Lawson 1 yr $3 million, 28 yr old Thomas Howard 2 yr $6.5 million).  And even though we failed to sign Donte Whitner the fact that we made an offer that he almost accepted before taking 3 yr $12 million from the Fort Niners proves that we were TRYING.

That was also tyhe same offseason that we replaced our Offensive Coordinator Bob "Blue Eyes" Bratkowski with Jay Gruden.

Some people around here act like the Bengals never make these kind of moves, but this was just 8 years ago.  And our offense last year was the worst it has been since 2008 when Palmer was out with injury.

I agree that the Bengals don't operate like this very often, but it has been a long time since we had an offense as bad as last year.  So I think they will loosen the purse strings in free agency this year.

Bengals made one big move in FA "just" 8 years ago and some of us act like they "never make these kinds of moves".  

Jeez, wonder why we would think that? 

[WeezyBengal]

(02-23-2018, 03:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't want to take this thread off the rails, but I can absolutely tell someone their opinion is wrong.

What if you said that in your opinion 2 + 2 = 13?  Does that make it correct just because it is your opinion?

2 + 2 = 4 is a fact. 

Difference between fact and opinion. Time to go back to 3rd grade. 

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2018, 03:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: ...and even that is debatable.

Not really.

We went from 24th in points allowed to 9th.

You think they did that without even trying?

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2018, 04:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: 2 + 2 = 4 is a fact. 

Difference between fact and opinion. Time to go back to 3rd grade. 

What is with the "3rd grade" comment?

All I was saying is that someone can have an opinion that is wrong. 

Do you agree or not?

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2018, 03:59 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Bengals made one big move in FA "just" 8 years ago and some of us act like they "never make these kinds of moves".  

Jeez, wonder why we would think that? 

Because you ignore real facts that don't fit your opinion.

[XenoMorph]

(02-22-2018, 10:09 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Big Changes?!?!

Synopsis of OP:

We tried improving defense 8 years ago by signing a couple mediocre free agents that didn't do much to improve the team. Because of that, look for front office to open the purse and perhaps sign a few mediocre players on offense.

I'm not sure if this was satire or serious. If serious, it's sad.

Thomas howard was really good for us.....     Unfortantely he died before returning to action after being injured or we might have had some better defensive units since then too.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-23-2018, 04:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Thomas howard was really good for us.....     Unfortantely he died before returning to action after being injured or we might have had some better defensive units since then too.

He was with Atlanta after the injury....

[SunsetBengal]

(02-23-2018, 04:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because you ignore real facts that don't fit your opinion.

So, is this thread about your opinion that the Bengals are going to make some "big moves", or the fact that they replaced an elite CB with a middle of the road free agent, and "fixed" the LB corps with a couple of guys that nobody else wanted?

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2018, 05:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, is this thread about your opinion that the Bengals are going to make some "big moves", or the fact that they replaced an elite CB with a middle of the road free agent, and "fixed" the LB corps with a couple of guys that nobody else wanted?

First of all it clearly is not about making "big moves" because I never used any term like that.

And why did you put the word "fixed" in parentheses when we went from 24th in points allowed to 9th?  Do you think it is better to have Joseph starting on a 24th ranked defense or Clement on a 9th ranked defense.  I can't believe people want to  complain even when the Bengals do something that works out well.

Here are the 2011 contracts adjusted for inflation of the salary cap

Clements....2 yr $15.2 million
Howard......2 yr $9.4 million
Lawson......1 yr $4.4 million

Those guys were all solid starters, and although it seems to pain you to admit it the signings had a big impact and our defense got a lot better.

So to answer your question this thread is about exactly what I said it was about in the OP.  I think the Bengals will make more moves than they have in the past few years in free agency in order to try and fix our offense.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-23-2018, 06:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all it clearly is not about making "big moves" because I never used any term like that.

And why did you put the word "fixed" in parentheses when we went from 24th in points allowed to 9th?  Do you think it is better to have Joseph starting on a 24th ranked defense or Clement on a 9th ranked defense.  I can't believe people want to  complain even when the Bengals do something that works out well.

Here are the 2011 contracts adjusted for inflation of the salary cap

Clements....2 yr $15.2 million
Howard......2 yr $9.4 million
Lawson......1 yr $4.4 million

Those guys were all solid starters, and although it seems to pain you to admit it the signings had a big impact and our defense got a lot better.

So to answer your question this thread is about exactly what I said it was about in the OP.  I think the Bengals will make more moves than they have in the past few years in free agency in order to try and fix our offense.

My apologies, what I meant to write was "big changes", as featured in the title of the thread.

To second bolded.  Sure, the team took modest action when forced to do so.  I mean, had they just not been stingy with the guaranteed money with Jonathan Joseph, he might have retired as a Bengal, and they wouldn't have had to pay Nate Clements as a rental.  With LB, part of that isn't their fault.  In Marvin's early years, they spent good draft picks on LBs.  Not their fault that bad things resulted from picking Thurman, Pollack, Rivers, Johnson.  Nonetheless, they only signed LBs off the market because they were forced to.  They had already milked every ounce of play that they could from the undersized Dhani Jones, and it was time for Keith Rivers to go elsewhere.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-23-2018, 04:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not really.

We went from 24th in points allowed to 9th.

You think they did that without even trying?

The insertion of Geno Atkins into the starting lineup had far more to do with that bounce back. 

You also have to consider that Palmer threw 5 pick sixes in 2010, so maybe it's not fair to judge that defense on points allowed.

[masonbengals fan]

In my mind any hope for change died when Marvin was brought back.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-23-2018, 08:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The insertion of Geno Atkins into the starting lineup had far more to do with that bounce back. 

You also have to consider that Palmer threw 5 pick sixes in 2010, so maybe it's not fair to judge that defense on points allowed.

We didn't refer to him as pick six Palmer, for nothin. 

[BengalChris]

(02-23-2018, 01:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know about Mike having any more influence in the draft, and I don't see the draft as having much of an influence on free agency

But you are 100% correct about the contracts for Dunlap, Atkins, and Dennard.  The Bengals will not have as much cap flexibility as they did in 2011.

The draft only affects free agency in terms of what spots the team thinks it can fill in the draft and, thus, let go of more expensive vets, albeit often better veterans. But, when the team drafts poorly and lets go of better vets go in favor of young guys, then the outlook isn't very good.

We've yet to replace Marvin Jones in terms of quality. Free agent bargain bin signing of Lafell was ok, but none of the draft picks have steps up either, and that includes a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder.