Which team has been more successful?

[Hoofhearted]

(03-09-2018, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you get it.

I chose just two teams because I was specifically measuring the way people value playoff wins against regular season success.  The ONLY way to do that was to pick two different teams that had varying levels of success in the regular season and post season.

If I had listed all 32 teams then every single person would have chosen the Patriots and that would not have proven anything.

Understand now?

Lighten up. Was just poking some fun

[SunsetBengal]

(03-10-2018, 10:20 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Lighten up. Was just poking some fun

Stand up straight, address that line, tuck in that shirt..  There will be NO fun of any kind in this thread!  Do you understand? 

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2018, 02:41 PM)Go Cards Wrote:  

Because living in the past is no fun which is why you chose 15 years instead of 20, 30, 40, or 50.

I chose 15 years because that is how long Marvin has been our coach.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-09-2018, 02:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His record is mediocre, but he has been handicapped by working for the worst owner in the league.

A horse finishing middle of the pack in a race is mediocre.  A horse finishing middle of the pack in a race with a 250 lb jockey is much better than mediocre.

We can’t know for sure if Marvin is held back by Mike Brown because Marvin has never been a HC anywhere else to make that claim.


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[fredtoast]

(03-09-2018, 03:12 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Have to go to work but this is my last say to people who think fans should just except everything and be a rah rah cheerleader.

It is like being a parent and your adult kid does something you do not agree with and believe it to be detrimental to their future.

Do you A… say I love you no matter what and just stay your course and lifes lessons will guide you ?

or

Do you B … offer advice on what you believe will help them along their path in life while explaining you still love them no matter what but believe this other route to be better for their future ?

I think the B is the more loving parent even though they had to disagree with their adult child.

Believe it to be the same with fans and the ones that toe the company line are wrong. No matter the team.  

But still love them too. As well as all Bengals fans who have stuck it out through the trying times we have faced. The weak are not around anymore and all cope differently.

Rock On Bengals fans !

Actually I see the fans who have never been in a NFL lockerroom or film session telling the bengals what to do as children trying to tell their parents how to handle some problem in life.

Even the language they use here reminds me of the way kids talk using insulting nicknames and other schoolyard techniques to try and make their point.

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2018, 10:20 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Lighten up. Was just poking some fun

And I was just making fun of you.  So you should lighten up also.

Or is it only funny when you make fun of other people but not when they make fun of you?

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2018, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: We can’t know for sure if Marvin is held back by Mike Brown because Marvin has never been a HC anywhere else to make that claim.

The only person who could make this claim is a person who sees nothing wrong ith the way the bengals address free agency.

Plus there is this

MB with Marvin Lewis as head coach... 125-112-3  .527  7 playoff appearances
MB with 3 other head coaches............    52-124-0  .295  ZERO WINNING SEASONS

One of those other head coaches was Bruce Coslet who made the playoffs as the Jets head coach but never even had a winning season with the Bengals

[Hoofhearted]

(03-10-2018, 11:28 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And I was just making fun of you.  So you should lighten up also.

Or is it only funny when you make fun of other people but not when they make fun of you?

You honesty think you have any barrring on me by what you say?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-10-2018, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The only person who could make this claim is a person who sees nothing wrong ith the way the bengals address free agency.

Plus there is this

MB with Marvin Lewis as head coach... 125-112-3  .527  7 playoff appearances
MB with 3 other head coaches............    52-124-0  .295  ZERO WINNING SEASONS

One of those other head coaches was Bruce Coslet who made the playoffs as the Jets head coach but never even had a winning season with the Bengals

All that is proving is that Marvin was better than the previous 3 head coaches. It doesn’t prove he would do even better with a different organization. No one can 100% guarantee that unless he actually becomes HC with another team and takes them deep into the playoffs.

How do you know Marvin isn’t also responsible for this approach to FA/draft? If he was really that against Mike Brown’s approach, wouldn’t it make sense for him to not keep signing new contracts with the Bengals and instead try to become HC with another team?


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[wolfkaosaun]

I'd rather root for the team I like the most, regardless of their history.

But that doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism.

Team A had more chances in the playoffs, but obviously squandered them all. Awful playoffs.
Team B has had more losing seasons, but has actually come closer to a Super Bowl than Team A.

[*Go Cards*]

(03-10-2018, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I chose 15 years because that is how long Marvin has been our coach.

Got that but other team did not have the same advantage of having same coach. 

Does not matter get your point and as a season ticket holder during all those years am glad the season records were good. 

But they are a blurred vision compared to those playoff losses being ridiculed by opposing fans on the way out and especially the way they melted down against the steelers when it was nearly impossible to lose. They were some long expensive rides home.

The steeler game points to coaching from the when Burfict ran into locker room acting like game was over, then the fumble, then Burfict cheap shot-ing WR after he had missed catch, to Pacman foolishly pushing ref. Hang it squarely on Marvin and would have respected him more if he would have took the heat putting blame on himself as a good coach would, even if it was not his fault. 

They had to work overtime to lose that one but if were more disciplined it could never have happened.   

Marvin brought us from the dark ages and deserves a lot of credit. Yet believe it is time to hand the baton to someone else to get us across finish line. 

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2018, 12:13 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You honesty think you have any barrring on me by what you say?

Not even sure what this means.

All I know is you told me to lighten up so I told you to lighten up.

Perhaps if you can't handle people disagreeing with you should just avoid message boards.

[*Nately120*]

(03-10-2018, 03:03 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Got that but other team did not have the same advantage of having same coach. 

Does not matter get your point and as a season ticket holder during all those years am glad the season records were good. 

But they are a blurred vision compared to those playoff losses being ridiculed by opposing fans on the way out and especially the way they melted down against the steelers when it was nearly impossible to lose. They were some long expensive rides home.

The steeler game points to coaching from the when Burfict ran into locker room acting like game was over, then the fumble, then Burfict cheap shot-ing WR after he had missed catch, to Pacman foolishly pushing ref. Hang it squarely on Marvin and would have respected him more if he would have done the same as a good coach would, even if it was not his fault. 

They had to work overtime to lose that one but if were more disciplined it could never have happened.   

Marvin brought us from the dark ages and deserves a lot of credit. Yet believe it is time to hand the baton to someone else to get us across finish line. 

The reason I find our playoff meltdown when we "shoulda won" against the Steelers to be rather expected and inexcusable is because we flopped in a similar fashion against the Cardinals earlier in the season.  In both cases we let the team get into FG range by hitting the WR we all knew the QB was going to target and then tossing in some bonus penalty yardage to make sure they had a better shot at making the FG.  Whoops.  Well, we shoulda won.

And Burfict running into the tunnel doing the "#1" hand gesture in a game that ended up being a loss is one of those great "Dewey Defeats Truman" moments in the NFL.  Ouch.

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2018, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: All that is proving is that Marvin was better than the previous 3 head coaches. It doesn’t prove he would do even better with a different organization. No one can 100% guarantee that unless he actually becomes HC with another team and takes them deep into the playoffs.

How do you know Marvin isn’t also responsible for this approach to FA/draft? If he was really that against Mike Brown’s approach, wouldn’t it make sense for him to not keep signing new contracts with the Bengals and instead try to become HC with another team?


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So what exactly are you trying to say?  It seems like you are claiming that Marvin is not handicapped by the way we handle free agency, then you start talking about blaming Marvin for the way we handle free agency.

Why would there be an issue of blame if there was no handicap from the way we handle free agency?

And do you have no knowledge of how we handled free agency before Marvin arrived?

[BleedNOrange]

Neither team has been "successful" as the title of the thread says.

As far as which team I would rather root for as the poll says, I would go Team A.

However, I believe Team B is the Jacksonville Jaguars. In that 3-3 playoff record, they did knock the Steelers out of the playoff twice, making them 2-0 vs. them. The Bengals are 0-2 vs. the Steelers in that same 15 year window. So I'm might lean toward Team B.

(The poll is extremely obvious what you were getting at so I'm sure the numbers are skewed.)

[depthchart]

(03-12-2018, 12:44 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: Neither team has been "successful" as the title of the thread says.

As far as which team I would rather root for as the poll says, I would go Team A.  

However, I believe Team B is the Jacksonville Jaguars.  In that 3-3 playoff record, they did knock the Steelers out of the playoff twice, making them 2-0 vs. them.  The Bengals are 0-2 vs. the Steelers in that same 15 year window.  So I'm might lean toward Team B.

(The poll is extremely obvious what you were getting at so I'm sure the numbers are skewed.)

If Team B is the Jacksonville Jaguars, then I would have rather rooted for them because they are on the verge of a much Brighter Future.

Tom Coughlin over football operations working with Head Coach Doug Marrone. Heavy into Free Agency, drafting well and losing just 24 to 20 to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game.

Jaguars manhandled the Bengals 23 to 7 last season with a smothering defense.

They have come out of wandering in the desert, which would now be behind a fan that rooted for them while the Bengals appear to be on the bubble for possible Wildcard contention in 2018 if things go well.

Team A looking to regain what has been their best form of maybe just getting to the playoffs, while Team B was a Final Four team last season with Super Bowl being much more within reach going forward.

Any fan that jumped ship from Team B to Team A would be regretting it about now and going forward.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-12-2018, 12:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So what exactly are you trying to say?  It seems like you are claiming that Marvin is not handicapped by the way we handle free agency, then you start talking about blaming Marvin for the way we handle free agency.

Why would there be an issue of blame if there was no handicap from the way we handle free agency?

And do you have no knowledge of how we handled free agency before Marvin arrived?

What I was trying to say was while I don't agree with the way the Bengals approach FA, Marvin might be part of the reason it's handicapped.
I can't imagine he'd still be here after 15 years if he wasn't on board with how things are approached by the FO.
Maybe you didn't intend for it to be perceived like this, but you seem to be of the mindset that Marvin isn't responsible for how this team approaches FA or the draft at all.
I'm saying we can't know for sure whether he's completely hand tied by Mike Brown until we see him with another organization.
And if he was completely hand tied by Mike Brown and vehemently wants (or wanted) to change things, why stay with the organization for so long? Would you stay with a company for 15 years if you were completely against how they operated? I wouldn't.

And no, I don't actually have knowledge of how the Bengals handled FA before Marvin arrived. I wasn't too into football until Marvin came. I was a junior in high school when he came in. Hockey was the sport I played growing up. Prior to 2005, I just occasionally watched games with my dad.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2018, 01:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can't imagine he'd still be here after 15 years if he wasn't on board with how things are approached by the FO.

Then there is a lot more you don't understand about the NFL and life in general.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2018, 01:15 PM)depthchart Wrote: If Team B is the Jacksonville Jaguars, then I would have rather rooted for them because they are on the verge of a much Brighter Future.

Tom Coughlin over football operations working with Head Coach Doug Marrone. Heavy into Free Agency, drafting well and losing just 24 to 20 to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game.

Jaguars manhandled the Bengals 23 to 7 last season with a smothering defense.

They have come out of wandering in the desert, which would now be behind a fan that rooted for them while the Bengals appear to be on the bubble for possible Wildcard contention in 2018 if things go well.

Team A looking to regain what has been their best form of maybe just getting to the playoffs, while Team B was a Final Four team last season with Super Bowl being much more within reach going forward.

Any fan that jumped ship from Team B to Team A would be regretting it about now and going forward.

The question was not about one year (2018).  The question was about the last 15 years.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-12-2018, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then there is a lot more you don't understand about the NFL and life in general.

Perhaps you're right. I've never claimed to know everything and openly admit I have plenty more to learn and want to learn.

EDIT - Originally posted something mean, but removed it because I shouldn't have posted.