Kirkpatrick's Day!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Top O' the afternoon to yah, kiss the blarney stone, green beers and corned beef.

This guy should not start this year fellas. Figures we give him a big contract after a good year and he has a below year after...

Happy St. Patrick's Day! :andy:

[*pally*]

The name Kirkpatrick comes from Scotland. But I'll agree with the sentimate

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-17-2018, 05:25 PM)pally Wrote: The name Kirkpatrick comes from Scotland.  But I'll agree with the sentimate

Hey Pally when did i talk about Ireland? 

WJ3 and Dennard should be the starting CB's this year is what i am talking about and Dre should either be an expensive
Slot or his contract should be restructured or he should be traded or cut is what i am talking about.

[McC]

(03-17-2018, 05:25 PM)pally Wrote: The name Kirkpatrick comes from Scotland.  But I'll agree with the sentimate

Half the Irish came from Scotland somewhere along the way as they were getting the hell out of Scandinavia.

[BengalFanInNJ]

The Irish came from God.

Everyone else wish they did. 

[HarleyDog]

Dre could be outstanding. He just has to get over himself.

[*psychdoctor*]

wj3 is clearly the "stud" at CB these days. Kirk has his moments and has shown flashes. Dennard is getting better. I think the secondary needs improvement at safety position because they get to the ball too slow.

[BengalsRocker]

Just no more of these type shenanigans please WJ III !

[SunsetBengal]

(03-18-2018, 11:37 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Just no more of these type shenanigans please WJ III !

Yeah, they were likely afraid of being ejected, if they touched the sacred cow, when it looked like he was heading out of bounds..

[BengalsRocker]

(03-18-2018, 11:44 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, they were likely afraid of being ejected, if they touched the sacred cow, when it looked like he was heading out of bounds..

Yeah I know what ya mean.

It was still a sad sight by him and Evans.

WJ III reminds me a lot of J Joe.

Hopefully he keeps it up and this time we keep a really good player.

[*Go Cards*]

Worked yesterday and did not take in any of the St Patricks day festivities.

Although my girl made me corned beef earlier in the week that was off the hook good and she made some Irish stew that supposedly was a huge hit at the Elks club last night.

Eating it for dinner at work tonight so will find out then.

Tried to get her to kiss the Blarney stone last night though, but sadly she was too tired as late as I get home.

[fredtoast]

Since I did not have Sunday Ticket this year and only got to watch a very few ganes I can not really give a strong opinion on Kirkpatricks play in 2017, but he gets more undeserved hatred than any player since Domata Peko. I don't have the 2017 stats from ProFootballOutsiders yet, but I have a feeling they will again show he is much better than many people around here think.

Dre didn't do much of anything his first three years and appeared to be a bust, but when he played well in 2015 no one wnated to give him any credit. Most of it was due to people not willing to change their perception, and a lot of that was backed up by the ridiculous PFF ranking that year. In fact that ranking is the main example I use when pointing out how biased and flawed the PFF indivdual rankings are.

In 2015 Dre played 97% of the snaps on a defense that finished ranked 5th in the league in pass efficiency. Of the 75 CBs that qualified for the stats compiled by ProFootballOutsiders Dre ranked 18th in yards per target allowed, 32nd in success rate (formula based on stats), and top 25 in completion percentage allowed. Yet PFF had him ranked 112th behind a bunch of scrubs that barely saw the field for much worse defensive teams.

in 2016 Dre played 94% of the snaps for a team that again finished 5th in pass efficiency. He ranked 5th in the league in yds per play and 18th success rate yet people here still hated on him. In some people mind it is "Once a bust, always a bust". So all they see is the bad plays he makes and they ignore how well he does in coverage.

Even the ones who have grudgingly admitted that Dre is a good CB usually complain that he was overpaid. Right now his average salary ($10.5 million) is 13th among CBs. That sound sounds high but the 20th highest paid CB makes $9 million a year, so it doesn't make much difference. By the end of his deal he will probably not be in the top 40 highets paid.

One knock on Dre is his tackling. He does blow some tackles, but he hustles and makes plays. And tackleibng is secondary to coverage when it comes to valuing CBs.

A lot is made about the nuber of penaties he draws, but whe you look at CBs and penalties many times the best CBs in the league are also among the most penalized. For example

...2017 Dre had 7 penalties. There were 23 other CBs who had at least 7 penalties (including William jackson and Josh Shaw). The league leader among CBs was All-Pro Marcus Peters with 9. Fellow All Pros Xavier Rhodes and Patrick Peterson also had 7 penalties.

...2016 Dre had 9 penalties. Only 7 CBs had as many as 9 penalties that year, but All Pro Patrick Peterson and A.J. Bouye (who got a $5 yr $68 million contract based on his '17 performance) had more penalties that Dre. Xavier Rhodes, Richard Sherman, and Pro Bowler Vontea Davis all had just one fewer penalty than Dre.

...2015 Dre led all CBs with 13 penalties, but All Pro Aqib Talib was second, Xavier Rhodes was 3rd, Richard Sherman and Marcus Peters tied for 5th, Vontae Davis was 6th and Patrick Peterson 10th.

This seems to be a staistical anomaly that the best CBs would be the league leaders in penalties, but I think it has to do with the fact that they are close enough to receivers to make those tight plays that draw penalties. The guys that can't cover don't end up attempting as many plays on the ball.

So until I get the '17 stats from PFO I won't have anything else to say about Dre, but I think it is clear that he does not deserve all the hate he has gotten around here.

[TheUberHuber]

(03-18-2018, 01:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since I did not have Sunday Ticket this year and only got to watch a very few ganes I can not really give a strong opinion on Kirkpatricks play in 2017, but he gets more undeserved hatred than any player since Domata Peko.  I don't have the 2017 stats from ProFootballOutsiders yet, but I have a feeling they will again show he is much better than many people around here think.

Dre didn't do much of anything his first three years and appeared to be a bust, but when he played well in 2015 no one wnated to give him any credit.  Most of it was due to people not willing to change their perception, and a lot of that was backed up by the ridiculous PFF ranking that year.  In fact that ranking is the main example I use when pointing out how biased and flawed the PFF indivdual rankings are.

In 2015 Dre played 97% of the snaps on a defense that finished ranked 5th in the league in pass efficiency.  Of the 75 CBs that qualified for the stats compiled by ProFootballOutsiders Dre ranked 18th in yards per target allowed, 32nd in success rate (formula based on stats), and top 25 in completion percentage allowed.  Yet PFF had him ranked 112th behind a bunch of scrubs that barely saw the field for much worse defensive teams.

in 2016 Dre played 94% of the snaps for a team that again finished 5th in pass efficiency.  He ranked 5th in the league in yds per play and 18th success rate yet people here still hated on him.  In some people mind it is "Once a bust, always a bust".  So all they see is the bad plays he makes and they ignore how well he does in coverage.

Even the ones who have grudgingly admitted that Dre is a good CB usually complain that he was overpaid.  Right now his average salary ($10.5 million) is 13th among CBs.  That sound sounds high but the 20th highest paid CB makes $9 million a year, so it doesn't make much difference.  By the end of his deal he will probably not be in the top 40 highets paid.

One knock on Dre is his tackling.  He does blow some tackles, but he hustles and makes plays.  And tackleibng is secondary to coverage when it comes to valuing CBs.

A lot is made about the nuber of penaties he draws, but whe you look at CBs and penalties many times the best CBs in the league are also among the most penalized.  For example

...2017 Dre had 7 penalties.  There were 23 other CBs who had at least 7 penalties (including William jackson and Josh Shaw).  The league leader among CBs was All-Pro Marcus Peters with 9.  Fellow All Pros Xavier Rhodes and Patrick Peterson also had 7 penalties.

...2016 Dre had 9 penalties.  Only 7 CBs had as many as 9 penalties that year, but All Pro Patrick Peterson and A.J. Bouye (who got a $5 yr $68 million contract based on his '17 performance) had more penalties that Dre.  Xavier Rhodes, Richard Sherman, and Pro Bowler Vontea Davis all had just one fewer penalty than Dre.

...2015 Dre led all CBs with 13 penalties, but All Pro Aqib Talib was second, Xavier Rhodes was 3rd, Richard Sherman and Marcus Peters tied for 5th, Vontae Davis was 6th and Patrick Peterson 10th.

This seems to be a staistical anomaly that the best CBs would be the league leaders in penalties, but I think it has to do with the fact that they are close enough to receivers to make those tight plays that draw penalties.  The guys that can't cover don't end up attempting as many plays on the ball.

So until I get the '17 stats from PFO I won't have anything else to say about Dre, but I think it is clear that he does not deserve all the hate he has gotten around here.

Well dre's performance  in 2017 and his new overpaid contract is what the op is talking about.  He was not terrible in 2017, just not that good either. In a few games he was a total liability on the field, missing tackles, getting beat, causing penalties on third downs. His play would be fine for depth, but not as a starter.

 And to be frank, all of those stats you posted for 2015 etc doesn't mean a darn thing in 2018. 

Dre is not even the second best cb on this team now -- why in the world would we want to pay him a number 1 salary.

[fredtoast]

(03-18-2018, 04:19 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Well dre's performance  in 2017 and his new overpaid contract is what the op is talking about.  He was not terrible in 2017, just not that good either. In a few games he was a total liability on the field, missing tackles, getting beat, causing penalties on third downs. His play would be fine for depth, but not as a starter.

 And to be frank, all of those stats you posted for 2015 etc doesn't mean a darn thing in 2018. 

Dre is not even the second best cb on this team now -- why in the world would we want to pay him a number 1 salary.

Nothing I can say until the PFO nubers come out.  But you know i heard people say the exact same thing after the '15 season.  They swore he was total garbage when he was actually a top 30 CB.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(03-18-2018, 11:54 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah I know what ya mean.

It was still a sad sight by him and Evans.

WJ III reminds me a lot of J Joe.

Hopefully he keeps it up and this time we keep a really good player.

Hahaha omg no not true at all. That’s what they will tell u but no. It’s laziness on jackson and just piss poor on Evans.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-18-2018, 05:39 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Hahaha omg no not true at all.  That’s what they will tell u but no.  It’s laziness on jackson and just piss poor on Evans.

That was coaching, just like Sunset said, didn't want to hit Bell too hard like always after Burfict tackled him too hard before.

Sad shit how girly they make players in these days.

But WJ3 is anything but lazy and that was him holding up as the coaches told him to do. Just terrible and everyone knew it.

Evans atleast was getting there as the pic shows.