I think we need a linebacker

[Shake n Blake]

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I don't think a 4-3 LB is a championship piece. D-line and secondary have always been the key pieces to this defense. Burfict is a transcendent talent, and that's why he makes an impact, but LB's that can impact this defense like that are incredibly rare. IMO, we're better off building up this o-line and running it down team's throats.

Carson Wentz and Nick Foles got all the hype for the Eagles, but they were quietly 3rd in rush yards and 4th in yards per carry. They also quietly ran for 164 yards in the SB.

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 01:17 PM)motoarch Wrote: https://goo.gl/images/yJ7c4f
So instead of tough hard hitting football you’re arguing in defense of tactics that are for cowards.

Cool good for you al bundy.

You’re logic and argument is so flawed and so stupid it doesn’t deserve any further acknowledgement.

I just realize it's what happens all the time, in every game, at every level, from HS on up.  Why get your panties in a wad over reality?   You, apparently, have never played the game or you would know this simple fact.  Look at any big pile in any NFL game and count how many times guys at the bottom get up shoving other guys who were on the bottom.  Why do you think that is?

Sorry if your delicate sensibilities don't allow you to acknowledge reality.

And hard hitting good football is what has gotten him some of those suspensions.  It's the thing the league is trying to take out of the game on a very selective basis.  Reference the JuJu premeditated attempted man slaughter hit on Burfict that got a one game suspension.

Believe me, if he is gone and his absence is sorely missed, which it would be, you'll be one of the first ones crying about letting him go.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-21-2018, 12:37 PM)McC Wrote: You leave out the fact that Burfict was the best Bengal player on the field in that playoff game.  The hit on Brown was not a cheap shot unless you're a Steeler fan.  It was a bang bang play, trying to prevent a receiver from making a catch.  Adam Jones was the much bigger culprit.  His foul did not come when making a football play and it was the one that made the winning FG makeable.

As to ankle twisting et al.  It's football, Nancy.  I played RB in HS.  (four TD's in one game).  I got poked in the eye, popped in the nuts.  One guy tried to give me a wedgie under the pile.  Another guy tries to pull two fo my fingers right off my hand.  And that was just HS.  It happens.  Burfict just isn't good enough at not getting caught.   None of that shit bothers me in the least.  It goes on every play, every game.  Guys constantly hit each other after the whistle.  The POS officiating crew, the embarrassingly bad zebras, are just selective as to who gets flagged and when.

Good for you thinking high road, all judgmental on your high horse and all.

Burfict gives way more than he takes away.  You can't get nearly enough value in a trade for him and if you cut him, he's signed elsewhere in about ten seconds.  And then his dubious suspensions would mysteriously go away.

He has issues, for sure, and he probably is his own worst enemy, but no one on this team can give you what he does.   I believe it makes a lot of sense to have a better LB crew around him so, if he can't play, you aren't sending bums out there.  But the idea of getting rid of him is just plain stoopid.

And, btw, pretty sure he was not tackling with his head when he got his last concussion, a fact you conveniently left out of your rant.

(03-21-2018, 01:17 PM)motoarch Wrote: https://goo.gl/images/yJ7c4f
So instead of tough hard hitting football you’re arguing in defense of tactics that are for cowards.

Cool good for you al bundy.

You’re logic and argument is so flawed and so stupid it doesn’t deserve any further acknowledgement.

Alright guys. Take it down a notch. 

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Alright guys. Take it down a notch. 

[Hammerstripes]

(03-21-2018, 12:35 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: If we really want a Superbowl team. Yes we need a center and maybe a right tackle. But 4 games for Burfict that's not including when he comes back and if he knocks out juju. They can do us really dirty and suspend him for the year. So I really like the Alabama linebacker. Leighton Vander esch I'm iffy on. Who else is out there that can potentially be a star. Sad to say but for the Bengals to win we need a straight up stacked team. If burfict is in there then even better,we will have a elite linebacker unit. Like the Broncos had when they won it.

Here's the problem:  the Bengals only use 2 LBs over 75% of the time.  I get that we need another guy, but we will never have a stacked LB group like Denver, mainly because they used 3-4 LBs a lot.

That being said, with the current state of this team, it's imperative that we fix the O-line.  I truly believe that this offense will return to being one of the best in the league with AJ, Eifert, Mixon, Gio, Ross, Boyd etc if we can actually protect the QB.

As of right now (and probably the last 3 years) Center has been a major hole on this team.  Glenn and Boling will be a nice combo, but after that it's a black hole.  We need to draft at least 2 interior lineman.

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 02:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Here's the problem:  the Bengals only use 2 LBs over 75% of the time.  I get that we need another guy, but we will never have a stacked LB group like Denver, mainly because they used 3-4 LBs a lot.

That being said, with the current state of this team, it's imperative that we fix the O-line.  I truly believe that this offense will return to being one of the best in the league with AJ, Eifert, Mixon, Gio, Ross, Boyd etc if we can actually protect the QB.

As of right now (and probably the last 3 years) Center has been a major hole on this team.  Glenn and Boling will be a nice combo, but after that it's a black hole.  We need to draft at least 2 interior lineman.

Only thing I might disagree on even a little is that between Westerman and Redmond, we could be okay at RG.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't be in favor of an upgrade there, but I think, worst case scenario, it wouldn't be a black hole.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-21-2018, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Marvin fancies himself the LB whisperer and likes to take mid to late round players with raw talent. Look for somebody like Matthew Thomas out of FSU or the kid from Central Florida

Tend to believe this after the Jim O comments about not taking a LB until the 4th.

Would be very happy with Shaquem Griffin though even if he doesn't have a hand.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-21-2018, 02:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Here's the problem:  the Bengals only use 2 LBs over 75% of the time.  I get that we need another guy, but we will never have a stacked LB group like Denver, mainly because they used 3-4 LBs a lot.

That being said, with the current state of this team, it's imperative that we fix the O-line.  I truly believe that this offense will return to being one of the best in the league with AJ, Eifert, Mixon, Gio, Ross, Boyd etc if we can actually protect the QB.

As of right now (and probably the last 3 years) Center has been a major hole on this team.  Glenn and Boling will be a nice combo, but after that it's a black hole.  We need to draft at least 2 interior lineman.

Great points on how we use Linebackers and you are correct about the O-line being the part that needs to be fixed on this team.

I still think that we need a RT more than a Guard as McC here speaks of...

Center has to be taken with one of our first two picks.

(03-21-2018, 02:09 PM)McC Wrote: Only thing I might disagree on even a little is that between Westerman and Redmond, we could be okay at RG.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't be in favor of an upgrade there, but I think, worst case scenario, it wouldn't be a black hole.

Heard this thought yesterday. What about Boling being moved over to RT? I tend to believe that if he can play LT that RT would
be an easy transition if we needed him to. Westerman is a natural LG/Center type. Redmond is a natural RG.

[Joelist]

We REALLY need to continue the OL restocking in the draft, which means that hopefully we go OL in both the first and second rounds. We need to come out of the draft with C and RT who both are plug and play.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-21-2018, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great points on how we use Linebackers and you are correct about the O-line being the part that needs to be fixed on this team.

I still think that we need a RT more than a Guard as McC here speaks of...

Center has to be taken with one of our first two picks.


Heard this thought yesterday. What about Boling being moved over to RT? I tend to believe that if he can play LT that RT would
be an easy transition if we needed him to. Westerman is a natural LG/Center type. Redmond is a natural RG.

While I completely agree, I think the team likes Fisher and has seen some potential with him.  I'm worried about the late year phenomena that always seems to trap us.  A guy plays good late in the season for a few games and then the team thinks he's a solid starter - and it always comes back to bite us.  I see some of that with Westerman and Redmond.  I'm hoping our new line coach evaluates them and replaces/keeps them based on his evaluation, not just a few late games.

[phil413]

Joelist Wrote:We REALLY need to continue the OL restocking in the draft, which means that hopefully we go OL in both the first and second rounds. We need to come out of the draft with C and RT who both are plug and play.

Agreed that RT and C will hopefully come from this draft.  

I'll gladly let Marvin think he's a LB whisperer (drafting a LB later) if gets the team on board with admitting the OL mistakes and not just playing guys by default that haven't earned it yet.   

[*wildcats forever*]

Stay on topic please. Take the personal stuff off line, and keep your posts here within the rules of the CoC. Thank you.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Code-of-Conduct

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I don't think a 4-3 LB is a championship piece. D-line and secondary have always been the key pieces to this defense. Burfict is a transcendent talent, and that's why he makes an impact, but LB's that can impact this defense like that are incredibly rare. IMO, we're better off building up this o-line and running it down team's throats.

Carson Wentz and Nick Foles got all the hype for the Eagles, but they were quietly 3rd in rush yards and 4th in yards per carry. They also quietly ran for 164 yards in the SB.

Seems to me that the better your DLine is, the better your LB's will be at run stopping.   If it takes a first round DT to do that, so be it.

Our biggest defensive need, imo, is someone, be it a S or a Nickle backer,  who can stop the easy completions in the middle of the field and to backs out of the backfield.   I would spend a first round pick on a guy who can do that, be it S or LB.  If we ever find such a guy, our defense would immediately be better.   And it would be icing on the cake if that guy has a knack for creating turnovers.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-21-2018, 03:34 PM)McC Wrote: Seems to me that the better your DLine is, the better your LB's will be at run stopping.   If it takes a first round DT to do that, so be it.

Our biggest defensive need, imo, is someone, be it a S or a Nickle backer,  who can stop the easy completions in the middle of the field and to backs out of the backfield.   I would spend a first round pick on a guy who can do that, be it S or LB.  If we ever find such a guy, our defense would immediately be better.   And it would be icing on the cake if that guy has a knack for creating turnovers.

The big strength of this team through the playoff run was the DL. Rarely will I have a problem with going DL in the first round, but we never do that. We seem to target DL and LB's in the middle rounds. As for our safeties, we're in a bad spot with Williams and Iloka. They're good enough to hold the starting gigs, but neither are difference makers like Nelson was.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-21-2018, 12:37 PM)McC Wrote: You leave out the fact that Burfict was the best Bengal player on the field in that playoff game.  The hit on Brown was not a cheap shot unless you're a Steeler fan.  It was a bang bang play, trying to prevent a receiver from making a catch.  Adam Jones was the much bigger culprit.  His foul did not come when making a football play and it was the one that made the winning FG makeable.

As to ankle twisting et al.  It's football, Nancy.  I played RB in HS.  (four TD's in one game).  I got poked in the eye, popped in the nuts.  One guy tried to give me a wedgie under the pile.  Another guy tries to pull two fo my fingers right off my hand.  And that was just HS.  It happens.  Burfict just isn't good enough at not getting caught.   None of that shit bothers me in the least.  It goes on every play, every game.  Guys constantly hit each other after the whistle.  The POS officiating crew, the embarrassingly bad zebras, are just selective as to who gets flagged and when.

Good for you thinking high road, all judgmental on your high horse and all.

Burfict gives way more than he takes away.  You can't get nearly enough value in a trade for him and if you cut him, he's signed elsewhere in about ten seconds.  And then his dubious suspensions would mysteriously go away.

He has issues, for sure, and he probably is his own worst enemy, but no one on this team can give you what he does.   I believe it makes a lot of sense to have a better LB crew around him so, if he can't play, you aren't sending bums out there.  But the idea of getting rid of him is just plain stoopid.

And, btw, pretty sure he was not tackling with his head when he got his last concussion, a fact you conveniently left out of your rant.

Is........is that you Al?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-21-2018, 04:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The big strength of this team through the playoff run was the DL. Rarely will I have a problem with going DL in the first round, but we never do that. We seem to target DL and LB's in the middle rounds. As for our safeties, we're in a bad spot with Williams and Iloka. They're good enough to hold the starting gigs, but neither are difference makers like Nelson was.

Damn we miss Reggie.....

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 04:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn we miss Reggie.....

We sure do.  His did his best work against the Steelers.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-21-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I don't think a 4-3 LB is a championship piece. D-line and secondary have always been the key pieces to this defense. Burfict is a transcendent talent, and that's why he makes an impact, but LB's that can impact this defense like that are incredibly rare. IMO, we're better off building up this o-line and running it down team's throats.

Carson Wentz and Nick Foles got all the hype for the Eagles, but they were quietly 3rd in rush yards and 4th in yards per carry. They also quietly ran for 164 yards in the SB.

You are right. It's not a popular opinion (with me, at least). 


You don't need HoFers at LB, but I don't think you can trot out anything close to what the Bengals did last year. It needs to be much much better. Not going to win too many championships with the 30th ranked rush defense (22nd by YPC).

You mention the Eagles and their highly ranked rushing offense, but you also need to mention that they were the BEST rushing defense in the NFL by yardage, and 6th by YPC. Heck, they were a very mediocre 17th in passing defense, but they could absolutely shut down an opponent's running game.

SB Winner Rush Defense Rank (YPC Rank)
'17 Eagles: 1st (6th)
'16 Patriots: 3rd (8th)
'15 Broncos: 3rd (1st)
'14 Patriots: 9th (8th)
'13 Seahawks: 7th (7th)

Last 5 SB winners right there, and none of them rank outside the top-10 in either of those rushing defense categories. LBs are important, because stopping the run is important.   :andy:

[McC]

(03-21-2018, 04:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Is........is that you Al?

Hee hee.  Truth be told, I never scored four.  Did score three, though, one time.  Got knocked out right before halftime, woke up on the sidelines right before the second half, started to run out there for the second half, coach stops me, asks me,  do you know the score.  No idea.   Asks me, how do you feel.  Feel fine.  He pats me on the butt, says go get 'em. 

I run out on the field, get in the huddle.  QB calls the play.  It meant nothing to me.  I ask him what do I do?  He says you run out to the right, I pitch you the ball and you don't stop until you you get to the end zone.  So, that's what I did.  Sixty some yards.  Played the game of my life, remember none of it.  Any details about it that I know come from what my teammates told me.  Three TD's in the second half.

[jj22]

(03-21-2018, 05:04 PM)McC Wrote: Hee hee.  Truth be told, I never scored four.  Did score three, though, one time.  Got knocked out right before halftime, woke up on the sidelines right before the second half, started to run out there for the second half, coach stops me, asks me,  do you know the score.  No idea.   Asks me, how do you feel.  Feel fine.  He pats me on the butt, says go get 'em. 

I run out on the field, get in the huddle.  QB calls the play.  It meant nothing to me.  I ask him what do I do?  He says you run out to the right, I pitch you the ball and you don't stop until you you get to the end zone.  So, that's what I did.  Sixty some yards.  Played the game of my life, remember none of it.  Any details about it that I know come from what my teammates told me.  Three TD's in the second half.

Well then it could have been four. You just don't remember, and your teammates wanted to keep you humble!