Why I am not happy about the Cordy Glenn trade

[BengalHawk62]

(04-03-2018, 02:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Really?
I would say Dallas Goerdart for best TE in draft.

I thought the kid from PSU was the best TE in the draft? 

[MentalRage]

Picking Hurst in the first round would be a massive reach. Id put down any amount of money that he won't be one of the first two tight ends taken. Goedert, Gesicki and Andrews are routinely mocked/ranked higher.

[YsCascadia]

(04-02-2018, 04:30 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: I belly laugh when I read linebacker is not as big of a need people are making it out to be lol.  We have only two competent linebackers on the roster.  One of those two is suspended for the first 4 weeks at least and that same one will be a FA at the end of the year lol.  But ur probably right smh.  Lol I just disagree 100%.  We want to stop the run but we don’t want any linebackers....right on.

Then maybe you should update yourself with our current roster.

http://www.bengals.com/team/roster.html


Burfict, who you have listed as out for 4 weeks and will be a FA by the end of the season, isn't the only LBer we have.  It will be interesting to see if he is brought in by anyone though considering his suspensions. 

Jordan Evans played well as a rookie.  Carl Lawson wasn't bad either, but again rookie.  Hardy Nickerson, don't know, haven't seen him on the field, maybe give him a shot before you write him off, also a rookie.  Nick Vigil should be back before the season starts and he is far from incompetent.  We even brought in Preston Brown from the Bills who made a lot of plays for him last season.  Lastly is Vinny Rey, who I will grant you, is lackluster, but he is a solid veteran who can step in if needed.

Now you do know that we play a 4-3 defense, right?  So who do you have that can play 4-3?  Also are you looking for an Sam, Mike or Will?  Do we take someone that plays Burfict's spot or hope to get one that can play all three.  When Burfict comes back, do we make a switch or leave it be? 

No, LBer is not as big of need as you think it is.  So you can laugh, but you only look foolish doing so.  We can still grab LBer in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  

[YsCascadia]

(04-03-2018, 02:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Really?
I would say Dallas Goerdart for best TE in draft.

Everyone seems to be mistaking great receiving with being a great TE. 

Goedart has trouble with his blocking.  He also had some trouble getting separation from LBers, but used his big body to make the catch.

Gesicki is also a terrible blocker but has better speed for being a threat in the passing game.

Andrews really needs to improve his what?  Blocking.  It is the same story.

Now a dark horse is Dalton Shultz.  Can block and isn't bad catching the ball.  Doesn't have the stats as Hurst, but he could be a good 3-4 round pick. 

Hurst is the better blocker and receiver out of the 2.

Now when I said ask 10 different people, I do mean the scouts, not MB posters, so sorry if you misunderstood that comment.

[Jpoore]

(04-03-2018, 04:18 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Everyone seems to be mistaking great receiving with being a great TE. 

Goedart has trouble with his blocking.  He also had some trouble getting separation from LBers, but used his big body to make the catch.

Gesicki is also a terrible blocker but has better speed for being a threat in the passing game.

Andrews really needs to improve his what?  Blocking.  It is the same story.

Now a dark horse is Dalton Shultz.  Can block and isn't bad catching the ball.  Doesn't have the stats as Hurst, but he could be a good 3-4 round pick. 

Hurst is the better blocker and receiver out of the 2.

Now when I said ask 10 different people, I do mean the scouts, not MB posters, so sorry if you misunderstood that comment.

In today's day and age, u don't need a blacking te.  Most tes now asats are strictly receiving tes for the most part. Gronk, Reed, eifert, Rudolph, engram etc. All u need from a te nowadays is a willingness to block. Gesecki can and will add massive muscle to his frame. Goedert will be the best te. But all of the top 4 have a willingness to block.

[Steve]

(04-01-2018, 11:01 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Your preference is noted.  However let us not pass up on a good / great TE just because we didn't get one last year.

I wouldn't have an issue with Hernandez at 21 if he is there (can never have too many OGs), yet I do think this is a deep class at OLine and that we can get those filled in rounds 2-3. 

LBer isn't as much of a need as many make it out to be, so I would go with one later.  FS has been missing for a while now and I did have hope with Derron Smith, but it seems he isn't stepping up so if a top guy is there then I would take him, if not then I would do the same as with LBer.

To me the draft for the 1st 3 picks should be Hurst (if available), OLine, OLine.

if they pick a TE at 21 there will be boos heard live....
Eifert's back.....even though there's no guarantee how long he'll hold up the TE position just isn't that important this year imo....
if OT Wynn is there I bet he's the pick......if he's gone i'd say Hernandez ...
i'd say OC in rd #2.....Price or Ragnow
just seems like "smart" moves".....
great value & fills a huge need on both picks.....

[Steve]

(04-01-2018, 11:47 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Hurst has started pulling away from the rest of the te's in this draft, according to some scuttlebutt out there.  There are also rumblings coming out that the bengals may look in a different direction than we expect.  We'll see

I honestly don't think the Bengals have any faith in Fisher being able to hold down the RT position....
I bet the Bengals are hoping we can draft OT Wynn for that spot....

& in rd #2 we should be able to get one of the top 3 OC's.....
makes perfect sense......no one can diss us over those picks...
solid A's
& that's rare for us in rds 1 & 2

I think your "rumblings"....is just smoke.....

[BenZoo2]

(04-04-2018, 09:06 PM)Steve Wrote: I honestly don't think the Bengals have any faith in Fisher being able to hold down the RT position....
I bet the Bengals are hoping we can draft OT Wynn for that spot....

& in rd #2 we should be able to get one of the top 3 OC's.....
makes perfect sense......no one can diss us over those picks...
solid A's
& that's rare for us in rds 1 & 2

I think your "rumblings"....is just smoke.....

I honestly don't think you know what the bengals are thinking.  Assuming they don't do something absolutely stupid like drafter a kicker, punter or long snapper in the first round I think you could make a case for almost every position.  A lot of folks want them to take wynn or hernandez at 1, or a center.  They may do that.  I could see them taking a player to prepare a year ahead, like de, dt or even qb.  

They can get a center in 2, I think, and a rt in 3 if they choose.  Round 1 is totally wide open for them

[XenoMorph]

(03-31-2018, 01:43 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick.  Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder.  When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG.  I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd.  Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician.  Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well.  Yet we took Dre for some reason.  I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).  

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well.  I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line.  Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.  

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along.  Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft.  Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection.  He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense.  For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant.  The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

in a passing league you need as many good CBs as you can get. wouldn't mind another TE... But kroft has been showing up. (although almost time to pay to keep him)

[Steve]

(04-04-2018, 10:40 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I honestly don't think you know what the bengals are thinking.  Assuming they don't do something absolutely stupid like drafter a kicker, punter or long snapper in the first round I think you could make a case for almost every position.  A lot of folks want them to take wynn or hernandez at 1, or a center.  They may do that.  I could see them taking a player to prepare a year ahead, like de, dt or even qb.  

They can get a center in 2, I think, and a rt in 3 if they choose.  Round 1 is totally wide open for them

I disagree....
Ced & Fisher can't handle the RT spot....
imo, RT & OC are our 2 major needs....

look at the value....at 21 a great pick would be OT Connor Williams.....no reaching....could be a long term solution.....seems like a logical move.....no "toys" this year....go w/ "meat & taters".....
I don't see rd #1 as being "wide open" as you suggest....
i'd say there's a 90% chance we will look for a RT in 1 & a 90% chance we will go OC in rd 2....
WE HAVE TO FIX THESE WEAK AREAS......EARLY....

[Steve]

(04-04-2018, 10:40 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I honestly don't think you know what the bengals are thinking.  Assuming they don't do something absolutely stupid like drafter a kicker, punter or long snapper in the first round I think you could make a case for almost every position.  A lot of folks want them to take wynn or hernandez at 1, or a center.  They may do that.  I could see them taking a player to prepare a year ahead, like de, dt or even qb.  

They can get a center in 2, I think, and a rt in 3 if they choose.  Round 1 is totally wide open for them

so you're saying Fisher can handle the RT position....?

[BenZoo2]

(04-07-2018, 12:26 AM)Steve Wrote: so you're saying Fisher can handle the RT position....?

I didn’t say that at all. Please show me where I said that.

Since it appears to me your knowledge of the draft and the players in it are limited I will try and help you. Connor Williams is thought to have heavy feet and arm length that barely meet the minimum of what Nfl teams look for. He may end up at guard.

There are numerous rt candidates that could be selected in rounds 2-4 that starr, or at least develop into starters.

Our run defense could use improving. Our linebacking Corp could use some more athleticism. Cb could be upgraded. Same with te and even qb.

Apparently you will only be satisfied with a rt in round 1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2018, 04:06 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Then maybe you should update yourself with our current roster.

http://www.bengals.com/team/roster.html


Burfict, who you have listed as out for 4 weeks and will be a FA by the end of the season, isn't the only LBer we have.  It will be interesting to see if he is brought in by anyone though considering his suspensions. 

Jordan Evans played well as a rookie.  Carl Lawson wasn't bad either, but again rookie.  Hardy Nickerson, don't know, haven't seen him on the field, maybe give him a shot before you write him off, also a rookie.  Nick Vigil should be back before the season starts and he is far from incompetent.  We even brought in Preston Brown from the Bills who made a lot of plays for him last season.  Lastly is Vinny Rey, who I will grant you, is lackluster, but he is a solid veteran who can step in if needed.

Now you do know that we play a 4-3 defense, right?  So who do you have that can play 4-3?  Also are you looking for an Sam, Mike or Will?  Do we take someone that plays Burfict's spot or hope to get one that can play all three.  When Burfict comes back, do we make a switch or leave it be? 

No, LBer is not as big of need as you think it is.  So you can laugh, but you only look foolish doing so.  We can still grab LBer in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  

I thought Burfict signed an extension last year before the season started?

BTW, we need a SAM Linebacker, we have tons of WILL backers and a couple MIKE's already on the team.

We will probably grab a LB in the mid rounds like Jim O our Bengal insider said. I am liking Shaqueem Griffin, Mike McCray,
Tegray Scales or Lorenzo Carter there. But if a player like Rashaan Evans, Vander Esch or Malik Jefferson falls to us in the 2nd
and we went with our Center in the first i could definately see us grabbing one of these guys.

[YsCascadia]

(04-04-2018, 08:49 PM)Steve Wrote: if they pick a TE at 21 there will be boos heard live....
Eifert's back.....even though there's no guarantee how long he'll hold up the TE position just isn't that important this year imo....
if OT Wynn is there I bet he's the pick......if he's gone i'd say Hernandez ...
i'd say OC in rd #2.....Price or Ragnow
just seems like "smart" moves".....
great value & fills a huge need on both picks.....

There were boos whne Eifert was picked.

As far as importance.  If TE was important last year, then it is important this year.

I am not against taking OLine.  I am usually on board with getting more top tier OLine guys.  As I said in 2012, I wanted us to go back to back OLine with both of our 1st round picks.  If I were the Browns GM, I would take Saquan Barkley with the 1st pick and Quentin Nelson at 4 and finish up with solid OT and OG in the 2nd round 1st and 2nd pick and with their final 2nd round pick possibly get a QB.

So I am a huge fan of getting Oline guys and wouldn't complain with us selecting one in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

However, TE is a need and this class isn't deep at TE.  It is deep at OLine and we will have access to great talent in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

I would rather get the best TE in the draft and pick up a OC in 2nd and a OC/OG in the 3rd. 

[YsCascadia]

(04-07-2018, 12:24 AM)Steve Wrote: I disagree....
Ced & Fisher can't handle the RT spot....
imo, RT & OC are our 2 major needs....

look at the value....at 21 a great pick would be OT Connor Williams.....no reaching....could be a long term solution.....seems like a logical move.....no "toys" this year....go w/ "meat & taters".....
I don't see rd #1 as being "wide open" as you suggest....
i'd say there's a 90% chance we will look for a RT in 1 & a 90% chance we will go OC in rd 2....
WE HAVE TO FIX THESE WEAK AREAS......EARLY....

Isnt' that what we did when we went Ogbuehi then Fisher?  Back to back OTs in 1st and 2nd round.

So your premise is flawed if you think grabbing OT in the 1st is the way to go since we did address it a few years back. 

Don't grab someone just because they play a certain position of need.  You go BPA and if it happens to be a need then great, if not then stay patient as it is better to get a top tier player at another position than to reach for a player that is just a slightly bit better than what you have on the team.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-08-2018, 06:38 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: However, TE is a need and this class isn't deep at TE.  It is deep at OLine and we will have access to great talent in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

I would rather get the best TE in the draft and pick up a OC in 2nd and a OC/OG in the 3rd. 

So, since they signed Eifert for a year, and Kroft has proven to at least be serviceable, you wait on TE until next season.  Go with what the draft has to offer.  Don't try to pound square pegs into round holes.  

This draft class is sort of a blessing for the Bengals.  It's OL rich, and the Bengals are currently OL poor.

[YsCascadia]

(04-08-2018, 07:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, since they signed Eifert for a year, and Kroft has proven to at least be serviceable, you wait on TE until next season.  Go with what the draft has to offer.  Don't try to pound square pegs into round holes.  

This draft class is sort of a blessing for the Bengals.  It's OL rich, and the Bengals are currently OL poor.

I would agree with you if Hayden Hurst wasn't a good TE.  However he was considered a top TE last year (not the top, but in consideration) in a draft that was rich with TEs.

I like the Eifert signing.  However he has also been injury prone.  If he can stay healthy, then great, him and Kroft would be a nice team.

I will say though, that a healthy Eifert and Hurst with Kroft as our 3rd would be better than Eifert, Kroft and Uzomah.

We do need Oline, however in a rich draft for OLine, you can afford to wait until the 2nd and 3rd round, even the 4th to address those needs.  Especially when you consider that guys selected in those rounds this year will only be marginally different than those selected in the 1st, at least where we are picking in the 1st.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-09-2018, 07:41 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I would agree with you if Hayden Hurst wasn't a good TE.  However he was considered a top TE last year (not the top, but in consideration) in a draft that was rich with TEs.

I like the Eifert signing.  However he has also been injury prone.  If he can stay healthy, then great, him and Kroft would be a nice team.

I will say though, that a healthy Eifert and Hurst with Kroft as our 3rd would be better than Eifert, Kroft and Uzomah.

We do need Oline, however in a rich draft for OLine, you can afford to wait until the 2nd and 3rd round, even the 4th to address those needs.  Especially when you consider that guys selected in those rounds this year will only be marginally different than those selected in the 1st, at least where we are picking in the 1st.

Sure, he looks good.  But, just how NFL ready can he be?  If you look at South Carolina St.'s 2017 Football schedule, I really don't notice too many opportunities for him to have played against any top tier competition.  I'm not saying that the kid can't play, just saying that he might need a couple years to develop to NFL caliber.

Last year, I was really big on the TE from Toledo, he had done tremendous things in college.  Had good size, speed, measurable, etc.  Today, I can't even tell you his name without looking it up.

[YsCascadia]

(04-09-2018, 07:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, he looks good.  But, just how NFL ready can he be?  If you look at South Carolina St.'s 2017 Football schedule, I really don't notice too many opportunities for him to have played against any top tier competition.  I'm not saying that the kid can't play, just saying that he might need a couple years to develop to NFL caliber.

Last year, I was really big on the TE from Toledo, he had done tremendous things in college.  Had good size, speed, measurable, etc.  Today, I can't even tell you his name without looking it up.

There is really no way to respond to this since it applies to every player in college.

I mean, sure Saquan Barkley looks good, but just how NFL ready can he be?  Sure he played for Penn State, but that was college.

It isn't really something that can be debated as it is something that we can all agree on. 

The Bengals could select Daniels and Price back to back and still need a OC and OG next year or the following year. 

We could've selected DeCastro and Glenn in 2012 and both could have been a bust.

Almost like when we went back to back OT with Cedric and Jake.  At the time, who could hate the picks, however we now know how terrible they were ( though to me the jury is still out with Jake as his could have been his heart issue and depending on how that heals, I would give him another shot if he wants it).

A lot of should've would've could'ves in the draft. 

So you know, I wouldn't hate the Daniels / Price selections.  If just one pans out, we will have an improved line, and a lot of our games were lost due to weaknesses on the OLine.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-10-2018, 08:06 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: There is really no way to respond to this since it applies to every player in college.

I mean, sure Saquan Barkley looks good, but just how NFL ready can he be?  Sure he played for Penn State, but that was college.

It isn't really something that can be debated as it is something that we can all agree on. 

The Bengals could select Daniels and Price back to back and still need a OC and OG next year or the following year. 

We could've selected DeCastro and Glenn in 2012 and both could have been a bust.

Almost like when we went back to back OT with Cedric and Jake.  At the time, who could hate the picks, however we now know how terrible they were ( though to me the jury is still out with Jake as his could have been his heart issue and depending on how that heals, I would give him another shot if he wants it).

A lot of should've would've could'ves in the draft. 

So you know, I wouldn't hate the Daniels / Price selections.  If just one pans out, we will have an improved line, and a lot of our games were lost due to weaknesses on the OLine.

To first bolded.  Baloney, I think just about any rational individual can surmise that Barkley played against many more soon to be pros at Penn St. than Hurst did at SC St.

To second, I hated those picks.  Especially Ogbuehi, he was from a run-pass-option offense.  A lot of people that follow football know that OL from those offenses struggle at the next level.  I was iffy on Jake Fisher, because the Pac 10 was pretty weak defensively at the time, along with Oregon being a gimmicky offense.