Success of "fastest" WRs since '00

[fredtoast]

Forty times and stats from ProFootballReference.com

Over the last 18 years ('00-'17) there have been a total of 10 WRs who ran the forty in 4.30 or faster at the combine.

Five of the ten never had a single season with 500 receiving yards, and 2 more only had a single season. Only 1 of them (Donte Stallworth) had more than 2 seasons with at least 500 receiving yards.

In 45 combined NFL seasons they only produced 11 seasons with 500+ yards.

Not a single one of them ever had a 1000 season.

The 10 WRs only produced 3 seasons with as many as 900 receiving yards (Stallworth '05, Darrius Heyward Bay '11, Marquise Goodwin '17).

8 of the 10 were listed at less than 6 feet tall, and the two that were at least 6 feet tall (Stallworth, Heyward Bay) accounted for two of the three 900 yd seasons and seven of the eleven 500+ yard seasons.

[fredtoast]

BTW I put the word "fastest" in quotation marks because I don't think 40 time really measures who is fastest. Forty time is acombination of quick start and top speed, but the guys with the quickest starts don't always have the top speed.

Anyone who wtached usain Bolt race knows what I mean. It was not uncommon for him to be trailing at the forty yard mark, but he had so much more top speed he blew everyone away.

Lots of tall WRs have slower 40 times than little guys, but when they are racing DBs down the filed they have more top speed to pull away.

WR races with DBs begin with a "rolling start". Press coverage or giving a cushion elminates the advantage of having the quickest start. So in my opinion WRs speed should be based on top speed instead of elapsed 40 time.

[Bengalbug]

(04-13-2018, 01:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW I put the word "fastest" in quotation marks because I don't think 40 time really measures who is fastest. Forty time is acombination of quick start and top speed, but the guys with the quickest starts don't always have the top speed.

Anyone who wtached usain Bolt race knows what I mean. It was not uncommon for him to be trailing at the forty yard mark, but he had so much more top speed he blew everyone away.

Lots of tall WRs have slower 40 times than little guys, but when they are racing DBs down the filed they have more top speed to pull away.

WR races with DBs begin with a "rolling start". Press coverage or giving a cushion elminates the advantage of having the quickest start. So in my opinion WRs speed should be based on top speed instead of elapsed 40 time.

Only on deep routes does top speed really matter.

Quickness does matter for slot receivers (walker ran a 4.65 yet was always open)

Where did DeSean rank? He is probably the best “fast guy” the nfl has seen recently.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

This is why i like John Ross, he is not a track guy, he is a football player and if he can stay healthy people will take notice of this.

Ross is not all speed. He has great hands, had a big route tree in college and was the best Red Zone threat in the country.

1 out of 5 catches he had a TD. Once him and Dalton get on the same page look out man.

[XenoMorph]

(04-13-2018, 01:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is why i like John Ross, he is not a track guy, he is a football player and if he can stay healthy people will take notice of this.

Ross is not all speed. He has great hands, had a big route tree in college and was the best Red Zone threat in the country.

1 out of 5 catches he had a TD. Once him and Dalton get on the same page look out man.

If hes learning from Housh hes gonna be a Dalton favorite for a long time

[Shake n Blake]

I'll only say this in defense of Ross: most of the guys who ran the fastest 40 weren't considered top prospects due to issues with route running, etc.

Ross was considered a good route runner and he produced. That's why he was taken in round 1 while a guy like Mario Alford went in the 7th round.

[XenoMorph]

(04-13-2018, 02:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll only say this in defense of Ross: most of the guys who ran the fastest 40 weren't considered top prospects due to issues with route running, etc.

Ross was considered a good route runner and he produced. That's why he was taken in round 1 while a guy like Mario Alford went in the 7th round.

and most those other names were probly Raiders or Lions picks lol

[WeezyBengal]

(04-13-2018, 01:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is why i like John Ross, he is not a track guy, he is a football player and if he can stay healthy people will take notice of this.

Ross is not all speed. He has great hands, had a big route tree in college and was the best Red Zone threat in the country.

1 out of 5 catches he had a TD. Once him and Dalton get on the same page look out man.

How is he a football player? He doesnt understand how to get separation. Did you read the latest piece on him and Housh?


“That took us years. It won’t happen overnight,” Houshmandzadeh says.  “He’s been fast his whole life. Whoever worked with him has never really gone over the basics and the nuances of route running. You can’t always run by you. You get to this level, everybody can run. Your technique and ability to separate has to come to the forefront because you can’t beat everybody with speed. That’s what I’m trying to get him to understand. He’s got speed no one else has.”


YIKES

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-13-2018, 01:18 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Where did DeSean rank?  He is probably the best “fast guy” the nfl has seen recently.

Was wondering the same thing. Deshean is a different player than Ross, but I think they'll be the most productive on this list when all is said and done.

(04-13-2018, 01:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is why i like John Ross, he is not a track guy, he is a football player and if he can stay healthy people will take notice of this.

Ross is not all speed. He has great hands, had a big route tree in college and was the best Red Zone threat in the country.

1 out of 5 catches he had a TD. Once him and Dalton get on the same page look out man.

Agree with this. I think in time we will see Ross develop. Not sure it's this year or next year though. He needs to learn the offense and really perfect his route running. He can be a great deep threat and red zone threat if he develops. Again, not sure this happens this year as he has to learn a new offense, and he didn't get to play last year. Has a lot of work to do in terms of learning his role in our offense and developing timing and chemistry. I'm thinking we'll see things start to develop for him this year, and he breaks out next year. But we'll see, he has to stay healthy and develop a tougher NFL body too. 

(04-13-2018, 01:36 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: If hes learning from Housh hes gonna be a Dalton favorite for a long time

Working with TJ is definitely a good sign. If he can develop as a route runner, and learn our offense, he can develop a nice niche within it. 

[corpjet]

(04-13-2018, 01:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is why i like John Ross, he is not a track guy, he is a football player and if he can stay healthy people will take notice of this.

Ross is not all speed. He has great hands, had a big route tree in college and was the best Red Zone threat in the country.

1 out of 5 catches he had a TD. Once him and Dalton get on the same page look out man.

His bigger problem is getting out of Marvins dog house...........

[bengalsturntup926]

I have very little hope for Ross and i wanted to draft him last year. I never watched him but once in college and his name was never called in that playoff Washington game. It was till after we drafted him I seen how small and frail he is that's why I have to think receiver somewhere in the draft,but I don't think the Bengals do. They'll get someone like Callaway in the 5th.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-13-2018, 01:36 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: If hes learning from Housh hes gonna be a Dalton favorite for a long time

For sure, the exact person Ross should be learning from. Housh never had that speed but he could get open with his crisp
route running. Ross has all the talent in the world he just needs to stay healthy and he will shut up the haters, just watch.

(04-13-2018, 02:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll only say this in defense of Ross: most of the guys who ran the fastest 40 weren't considered top prospects due to issues with route running, etc.

Ross was considered a good route runner and he produced. That's why he was taken in round 1 while a guy like Mario Alford went in the 7th round.

Damn rights Shake.

(04-13-2018, 03:12 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How is he a football player? He doesnt understand how to get separation. Did you read the latest piece on him and Housh?


“That took us years. It won’t happen overnight,” Houshmandzadeh says.  “He’s been fast his whole life. Whoever worked with him has never really gone over the basics and the nuances of route running. You can’t always run by you. You get to this level, everybody can run. Your technique and ability to separate has to come to the forefront because you can’t beat everybody with speed. That’s what I’m trying to get him to understand. He’s got speed no one else has.”


YIKES

Where does Housh say Ross doesn't understand how to get seperation?

He has to go over the basics and nuances of route running as all young WR's do, big deal. He will get it.

Tell Adoree Jackson John Ross doesn't know how to get seperation.

(04-13-2018, 03:14 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Agree with this. I think in time we will see Ross develop. Not sure it's this year or next year though. He needs to learn the offense and really perfect his route running. He can be a great deep threat and red zone threat if he develops. Again, not sure this happens this year as he has to learn a new offense, and he didn't get to play last year. Has a lot of work to do in terms of learning his role in our offense and developing timing and chemistry. I'm thinking we'll see things start to develop for him this year, and he breaks out next year. But we'll see, he has to stay healthy and develop a tougher NFL body too. 

Working with TJ is definitely a good sign. If he can develop as a route runner, and learn our offense, he can develop a nice niche within it. 

At the very least he will start to get it together by mid season if he can stay healthy. One way or the other he will make a
difference for the better. Having another threat opposite AJ will really open up the entire Offense.

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2018, 02:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll only say this in defense of Ross: most of the guys who ran the fastest 40 weren't considered top prospects due to issues with route running, etc.

Ross was considered a good route runner and he produced. That's why he was taken in round 1 while a guy like Mario Alford went in the 7th round.

Correct. Only 3 of those ten "fastest" were first round picks.  Ross, Stalworth, and Heyward-Bay.

Since both Stallworth and Heyward bay had at least some limited success in the NFL it does not look quite as bad for Ross.

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2018, 03:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: and most those other names were probly Raiders or Lions picks lol

Dri Archer................3rd round Stealers
Marquise Goodwin....3rd round Bills
Yamon Figures.........3rd round Ravens
Jerome Mathis..........4th round Texans
Jacoby Ford..............4th round Raiders
Mike Thomas ...........4th round Jags
J.J. Nelson................5th round Cards

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-13-2018, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dri Archer................3rd round Stealers
Marquise Goodwin....3rd round Bills
Yamon Figures.........3rd round Ravens
Jerome Mathis..........4th round Texans
Jacoby Ford..............4th round Raiders
Mike Thomas ...........4th round Jags
J.J. Nelson................5th round Cards

I remember Brandon Cooks running a fast forty.

He is a damn good receiver.

[WeezyBengal]

(04-13-2018, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure, the exact person Ross should be learning from. Housh never had that speed but he could get open with his crisp
route running. Ross has all the talent in the world he just needs to stay healthy and he will shut up the haters, just watch.


Damn rights Shake.


Where does Housh say Ross doesn't understand how to get seperation?

He has to go over the basics and nuances of route running as all young WR's do, big deal. He will get it.

Tell Adoree Jackson John Ross doesn't know how to get seperation.


At the very least he will start to get it together by mid season if he can stay healthy. One way or the other he will make a
difference for the better. Having another threat opposite AJ will really open up the entire Offense.

You would think the 9th overall pick in the draft and a guy in his second year in the NFL would know the basics and nuances of route running. 

[Luvnit2]

I think the outlook for 2018 Ross is directly tied into being 100% healthy to get work done in camps and establish a confidence with AD and give ML and Lazor faith he can run all the routes, get separation on short and deep routes.

I think Ross can be a much better slot receiver than a guy like Hawkins, but can also line up at #2 WR as well as in the backfield to really shake things up.

I hear our offense is changing, I hope it changes to have a set of 4 or 5 plays for 1 of the fastest WR's in the league.But again, Ross needs to make all practices and keep learning the route tree for all 3 WR positions.

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2018, 04:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You would think the 9th overall pick in the draft and a guy in his second year in the NFL would know the basics and nuances of route running. 

I don't know about Ross but sometimes the most physically gifted players are the ones with the poor technique.  They get by so well just on ridiculous speed or strength that they do not work as hard on skills.

Ross was never accused of being a weak "route runner" in college, but the NFL is at another level.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-13-2018, 04:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You would think the 9th overall pick in the draft and a guy in his second year in the NFL would know the basics and nuances of route running. 

He does, he just has to refine them Weezy. Watch the guy in college for heck sake.

Sometimes i swear people have never seen the guy. He had a wider route tree than any of the first 3 WR's taken in that Draft.

[The Caped Crusader]

(04-13-2018, 03:12 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How is he a football player? He doesnt understand how to get separation. Did you read the latest piece on him and Housh?


“That took us years. It won’t happen overnight,” Houshmandzadeh says.  “He’s been fast his whole life. Whoever worked with him has never really gone over the basics and the nuances of route running. You can’t always run by you. You get to this level, everybody can run. Your technique and ability to separate has to come to the forefront because you can’t beat everybody with speed. That’s what I’m trying to get him to understand. He’s got speed no one else has.”


YIKES

I guess my reading comprehension is bad. I don't see anything bad there, really, at all. 


First sentence - We trained for years (assuming Chad and him) to be able to run routes as well as we did.
Second sentence - He has talent.
Third sentence - He hasn't had the training that Chad and him have had.
Fourth sentence - You can't live and die by your talent. You have to train, learn technique.
Fifth sentence - Everyone has talent, you have to lead by technique (obviously).
Sixth sentence - I'm trying to teach him.
Seventh - His talent is better than everyone else.


I'm not seeing the bad there.