Ragnow in for a visit

[BengalHawk62]

Either, Wynn, Ragnow or Daniels in the first will make my pee-pee tingle.

[BenZoo2]

(04-18-2018, 02:44 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Either, Wynn, Ragnow or Daniels in the first will make my pee-pee tingle.

They make a cream for that, so I’ve heard


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[Goalpost]

Ragnow makes sense for Carolina. Kalil is in his final year.

[3wt]

(04-18-2018, 02:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Huge, Huge difference.  Ogbuehi never played at an elite level at Texas A&M - especially when he played tackle.  Ragnow has been one of the best, if not the best, performing centers in the draft.

If the Bengals wait unit 46, they will be picking the 4th ranked C in this draft.

This.   Unlike Ogbuehi this guy looks great on film.  My guess is that all the folks that have him rated in the mid 2nd round are draftniks.  The guy did not give up a single sack in the SEC.


I get tired of hearing about reaching.   If you want a player more than the others and he's within reach grab him.    Or be darn sure he will be there at 46.  And you can't be.  46 is a long way down.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-18-2018, 02:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't see it. Who's grades? Random analysts? Ragnow is projected by NFL.com as a 2/3 Price is a 2nd and Daniels is 1/2, projections from various sites are all over the place. Billings was a sure fire 1st rounder by every analyst and we know how that went. Teams in general don't value Centers that high for some weird reason. It is more so the talent of other positions that push them down rather than their lack of talent. I think one Center goes in the late 1st with two in the 2nd.

If you look at the consensus of analysts over the years, when a center has had a first round "grade" they almost always go in the first round.

Price and Ragnow were dinged because of injury.

I think Daniels goes in the top 25, Ragnow goes between 30-35 and then Price ends up at #45 with a team jumping front of the Bengals IF they don't take a Center in round 1.

[3wt]

(04-18-2018, 02:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: If you look at the consensus of analysts over the years, when a center has had a first round "grade" they almost always go in the first round.

Price and Ragnow were dinged because of injury.

I think Daniels goes in the top 25, Ragnow goes between 30-35 and then Price ends up at #45 with a team jumping front of the Bengals IF they don't take a Center in round 1.

Agreed.   Our # 1 need is center - and not just a guy.  Someone good should be there for us at 46, but the chances are too good that they won't be one of the centers we want.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 02:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: A lot of teams check out guys, but it doesn't mean what we think all the time. That could be for a trade back, or a trade up in the 2nd. It is a really fluid thing the draft, never know where a guy may be available. A lot of people thought Kamara last year could be a late 1st or early 2nd and there he was in the 3rd for the Saints. 

That's true. Worth pointing out that teams make their own big boards. Just because analysts think a player is Rd X or Y doesn't mean a team (or teams) will think that. Heck, remember when we heard that the Bengals had both Ogbuehi and Fisher as first rounders and the Bengals were ecstatic to see Fisher still there in the 2nd round? Or how many sites had Nick Vigil as a Day 3 pick yet the Bengals took him in Rd 3? The Bengals might have Ragnow on their board higher than some/most analysts/fans think they belong.

[Au165]

(04-18-2018, 02:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: If you look at the consensus of analysts over the years, when a center has had a first round "grade" they almost always go in the first round.

Price and Ragnow were dinged because of injury.

I think Daniels goes in the top 25, Ragnow goes between 30-35 and then Price ends up at #45 with a team jumping front of the Bengals IF they don't take a Center in round 1.

That is basically inline with me saying one in the 1st and two in the 2nd, I think we can slide back in the 1st or up in the 2nd and get one without issue.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 02:50 PM)3wt Wrote: This.   Unlike Ogbuehi this guy looks great on film.  My guess is that all the folks that have him rated in the mid 2nd round are draftniks.  The guy did not give up a single sack in the SEC.


I get tired of hearing about reaching.   If you want a player more than the others and he's within reach grab him.    Or be darn sure he will be there at 46.  And you can't be.  46 is a long way down.

Bingo. Just because he's considered a pick in the 30's doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered at all. You can't take BPA for every pick, and if you end up waiting and hoping he drops to the next round, you could end up being stuck with someone else at that position that is (much) worse. If you can't trade back, sometimes it's better to slightly "reach" rather than risk waiting for the next pick.

[CJD]

(04-18-2018, 02:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Huge, Huge difference.  Ogbuehi never played at an elite level at Texas A&M - especially when he played tackle.  Ragnow has been one of the best, if not the best, performing centers in the draft.

If the Bengals wait unit 46, they will be picking the 4th ranked C in this draft.

I don't believe that. I think one of Daniels, Ragnow and Price is, essentially, guaranteed to be there at 46.

If you want to pick your favorite, I can see an argument for taking one at 21. But the odds of all 3 of them being taken before our second pick are very slim.

The last time 3 Centers were taken in the top 50 picks was 2009. Then 2003.

The last time 3 Centers were taken in the top 46 picks was 1989.

And then 1983.

Maybe this will be the 5th time it happens in the last 35 years.

But I doubt it.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 02:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: That is basically inline with me saying one in the 1st and two in the 2nd, I think we can slide back in the 1st or up in the 2nd and get one without issue.

When was the last time the Bengals traded up within the first three rounds? If they trade up from 46, it would mean having to give up valuable draft pick(s) and they prefer to build through the draft. Because of that, I don't see trading up as being considered much.

[Au165]

(04-18-2018, 03:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: When was the last time the Bengals traded up within the first three rounds? If they trade up from 46, it would mean having to give up valuable draft pick(s) and they prefer to build through the draft. Because of that, I don't see trading up as being considered much.

Well then we have to do the whole Bengals breaking draft trends thing and we go round and round. I will say we have never been able to trade comp picks until recently so I think that definitely changes things vs the past. Also it is important to note how the 5th year option now makes pick 32 infinitely more valuable than pick 33 for long term purposes. Throw in the fact that 1st round picks are slotted and not a free for all , which is big for a notoriously cheap organization, and it all points to there being a whole lot of reasons why it is more likely to happen today than in the past.

Not saying it will but it could, especially with two years of a ton of picks having to struggle to make the roster.

When was the last time the team drafted a center in the 1st round again? 

[BenZoo2]

(04-18-2018, 03:21 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't believe that. I think one of Daniels, Ragnow and Price is, essentially, guaranteed to be there at 46.

If you want to pick your favorite, I can see an argument for taking one at 21. But the odds of all 3 of them being taken before our second pick are very slim.

The last time 3 Centers were taken in the top 50 picks was 2003.

The last time 3 Centers were taken in the top 46 picks was 1989.


And then 1983.

Maybe this will be the 4th time it happens in the last 35 years.

But I doubt it.

Price and ragnow have played guard too and could be considered as interior ol. Maybe Daniels has too. Interior line play is being addressed by more teams to handle pressure up the middle.

I think pollack is quite happy to have taken Frederick in 1



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[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 03:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well then we have to do the whole Bengals breaking draft trends thing and we go round and round. I will say we have never been able to trade comp picks until recently so I think that definitely changes things vs the past. Also it is important to note how the 5th year option now makes pick 32 infinitely more valuable than pick 33 for long term purposes. Throw in the fact that 1st round picks are slotted and not a free for all , which is big for a notoriously cheap organization, and it all points to there being a whole lot of reasons why it is more likely to happen today than in the past.

Not saying it will but it could, especially with two years of a ton of picks having to struggle to make the roster.

When was the last time the team drafted a center in the 1st round again? 

1983. And I get it, it like won't happen. I would have said guaranteed not to happen if Alexander was still OL coach.
I think many (including myself) hope that Pollack can change the perception the Bengals have on when to draft C in the past 30 or so years, plus I think many (including myself) are fearful of missing out on Daniels, Price, or Ragnow so "reaching" is becoming more acceptable in our minds.

Personally, out of the three, I have the least concerns with Ragnow and that's why he's my top C. I worry about Daniels' lack of strength and I worry about Price's over-aggression and really short arms. I don't worry about anything with Ragnow honestly.

In an ideal world, I want to see the Bengals trade back to get an extra 2nd/3rd round pick while still getting Ragnow in the late 1st. But if they take him at 21, I won't be upset by it because I'll know/believe they got a dominant C finally.

[Au165]

(04-18-2018, 03:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 1983. And I get it, it like won't happen. I would have said guaranteed not to happen if Alexander was still OL coach.
I think many (including myself) hope that Pollack can change the perception the Bengals have on when to draft C in the past 30 or so years, plus I think many (including myself) are fearful of missing out on Daniels, Price, or Ragnow so "reaching" is becoming more acceptable in our minds.

Personally, out of the three, I have the least concerns with Ragnow and that's why he's my top C. I worry about Daniels' lack of strength and I worry about Price's over-aggression and really short arms. I don't worry about anything with Ragnow honestly.

In an ideal world, I want to see the Bengals trade back to get an extra 2nd/3rd round pick while still getting Ragnow in the late 1st. But if they take him at 21, I won't be upset by it because I'll know/believe they got a dominant C finally.

I get it, I would have guaranteed we wouldn't have taken Ross or Eiffert either based on history but the crazy thing is we do seem to be changing....slowly.

I don't mind a Center in the 1st, but I really hope it's not at 21 whether thats us moving back or coming up.

[CJD]

(04-18-2018, 03:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 1983. And I get it, it like won't happen. I would have said guaranteed not to happen if Alexander was still OL coach.
I think many (including myself) hope that Pollack can change the perception the Bengals have on when to draft C in the past 30 or so years, plus I think many (including myself) are fearful of missing out on Daniels, Price, or Ragnow so "reaching" is becoming more acceptable in our minds.

Personally, out of the three, I have the least concerns with Ragnow and that's why he's my top C. I worry about Daniels' lack of strength and I worry about Price's over-aggression and really short arms. I don't worry about anything with Ragnow honestly.

In an ideal world, I want to see the Bengals trade back to get an extra 2nd/3rd round pick while still getting Ragnow in the late 1st. But if they take him at 21, I won't be upset by it because I'll know/believe they got a dominant C finally.

If we could trade back to ~25 to 30, grab a 3rd round pick and still get a Center in the first, I would probably have to re-evaluate my entire understanding of what it means to be a Bengals fan. That would be a dream come true.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(04-18-2018, 01:13 PM)McC Wrote: If it's me, I have him start house shopping cuz for better or for worse, I'm taking him at 21.  Don't get cute, FO.  Put this guy in stripes.  Give Frank to Frank.

Here here.  If they think that he's the best center in a good interior o-line class, pull the trigger imo.  The last time that they played the "oh just wait until next round" game the Patriots and Packers both took centers.  They were forced to panic and trade up for their 3rd option, Bodine.  Don't out-think yourself, don't try to get "premium position" value for a guy who may be riding the bench, just take the guy who doesn't give up sacks and runs folks over in the run game.  I don't really get excited about being left with the third best center that other teams didn't covet as much.  I would get excited about taking their pick of the best center in the draft.

[Au165]

Side note they have met with Price and Daniels already I believe, so there is nothing that says he is the guy only that they met with him. I'd be curious what their Center hierarchy is.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 03:56 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If we could trade back to ~25 to 30, grab a 3rd round pick and still get a Center in the first, I would probably have to re-evaluate my entire understanding of what it means to be a Bengals fan. That would be a dream come true.

Back in 2012, the Bengals traded back from 21 to 27 and also received a third-round selection (93 overall), so there's already precedent in recent history.
Interestingly, that matched up near-identical to this year's trade value chart.
21 = 800 pts
27 (680) + 93 (128) = 808 pts

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2018, 04:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: Side note they have met with Price and Daniels already I believe, so there is nothing that says he is the guy only that they met with him. I'd be curious what their Center hierarchy is.

Price was only at the Combine and Daniels was only for a private visit, not his Pro Day. Ragnow was private visit and Pro Day.