The QB position

[CornerBlitz]

Ahh I had a feeling the Dalton lovers would come and take most of my thread out of context......

We can't seem to have a civil, objective dialogue about the QB position.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2018, 03:34 PM)Beaker Wrote: Read my post in the grade the draft thread where I gave my grade.

And to think you could have been kinder, with that many of your posts in the thread (which is 8 pages long) that you could have alerted me it was the very last post of the thread?   Ok, you got me.

WTS, I agree. I like the strong B rating. Like I said, I will respect that these guys know football better than I do. They also know what they have and what they can salvage. They know where the weaknesses are and what they can manage while they re-build. This team was on a slippery slope to hell extremely quickly. I think most of us seen it happening.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2018, 03:43 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Ahh I had a feeling the Dalton lovers would come and take most of my thread out of context......

We can't seem to have a civil, objective dialogue about the QB position.

But we can? Yet an objective dialogue is not at what you were aiming. Dalton is not a problem. With all due respect, I don't see how we can judge Dalton due to the line he was been forced to work with. Is he inconsistent? Heck yeah, he can be. Does he make stupid mistakes? Sure he does. However, he seems pretty solid when he has protection. He just sucks when forced out of the pocket. He's not a Vick, RGIII type guy? I don;t think we should expect that out of him. He needs protection. 

If Dalton comes out flat with decent protection, then I think it's legit. However, many hang baggage on him he doesn't deserve. I'm not a Dalton worshiper by any means but I am fair. And thats what I think we need to be is fair and consider the situation. I also don't think Woodside is a pick we should roll our shoulders towards. He can be a very servicable QB with maybe much more with good coaching. 

Come'on CornerBlitz. Drink the koolaid. I know you want too?

[PDub80]

(04-28-2018, 09:57 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I will tell you why...

The Coaching staff and Front Office does not want a QB controversy.  Period.  If the Bengals would have drafted Rudolph, fans would be screaming for him to start after Dalton's first bad game.

They were going to draft Rudolph in the 3rd. Marvin just basically said that in the presser after the draft. The Steelers knew it and traded up one spot in front of the Bengals to take him instead.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2018, 04:02 PM)PDub80 Wrote: They were going to draft Rudolph in the 2nd. Marvin just basically said that in the presser after the draft. The Steelers knew it and traded up one spot in front of the Bengals to take him instead.

Seriously? Why would he do that and take away from the player that was drafted?

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-29-2018, 04:02 PM)PDub80 Wrote: They were going to draft Rudolph in the 2nd. Marvin just basically said that in the presser after the draft. The Steelers knew it and traded up one spot in front of the Bengals to take him instead.

Do you mean the 3rd round? Maybe if they wanted to keep Rudolph from the Steelers. Drafting Rudolph would have caused havoc.

[Joelist]

I think we need to get the OL fixed and show we can actually run the ball before we start thinking QB. Otherwise any new QB is hosed right out of the gate.

[kevin]

(04-28-2018, 08:56 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Okay so I'm sitting here and overall pretty content with the NFL Draft and how things went with one exception.  How do we not draft a QB (besides pick #249) in such a deep class?  Every team in our division drafted a QB even in the case of a Pittsburgh who has an elite one already.  

Smart teams plan for the future. Dalton is serviceable but are we willing to pay him 20-25 million per year and continue to stay average at the position?  I thought the Ravens made a brilliant move in drafting Lamar Jackson....have him learn behind Flacco for a few year and see where things end up 3 years from now. Do they really want to give Flacco 25 million a year with the way he's playing? The same question can be posed for Andy......

Every off season we sit here and argue about Andy. I think most of us can come to the consensus that he's not terrible or great and that for the contract he's worth it....but that shouldn't preclude you from attempting to solidify/upgrade the position for the future especially with the way the QBs are getting paid.

You may sit here every year arguing about Andy. You may consider him in your words as " serviceable ".  I do not. 

You say this was a deep class of quarterbacks, but ESPN and NFL Network said the opposite. You point to Lamar Jackson, but there are huge questions to him as an NFL QB, and some teams were considering him switching to WR as Terrelle Pryor.  I am glad Bengals did not take a QB early considering how weak the team is at Blocking and Tackling.  I am happy to say that in Free Agency and Draft The Bengals addressed Blocking and Tackling. 

I like that we go in with Andy Dalton as our quarterback in 2018.  I recommend you watch the last game played again. With no blocking our O Line allowed Dalton to take hits by Ravens most quarterbacks never get up from.  Dalton was tough enough that after all that pounding he took, he still threw the game winning bomb to Boyd. As I say, most quarterbacks would have been knocked out of the game.  Other than that injury in 2015 Dalton has started every game since 2011. 2015 was sad because we started 8-0 and Dalton was easily going to be NFL MVP before the injury happened.  He has been in many Pro Bowls which is far more than serviceable.  Dalton is only QB in Bengals history to lead franchise to 5 straight play-off seasons. The last 2 seasons of 6 and 7 wins fall more on the loss of key veterans in free agency and season long injuries. After 2015 we lost Jones and Sanu and Eifert hasn't played the last 2 seasons and sometimes AJ Green didn't play due to injuries. This did cut down on pass targets. Add in that since 2015 the collapse of the O Line and losing too many key players on the O Line to other teams. This has also caused no rushing yards due to no blocking. So we have Pro Bowl Dalton last 2 years with no blocking, no rushing to counter pass rush, top receivers gone or injured.  Most quarterbacks don't get up from the hits he has taken last 2 years, and most quarterbacks could not win 6 or 7 games on such a weak offense.  I again say I like that Dalton is our QB in 2018 and that team has tried to bring in blocking to establish a running game to cut down on the pass rush, to give Dalton pass protection, to get the ball to receivers who are starting to maybe take the place of Jones and Sanu such as Boyd. Kroft has shown he can be a go to guy if Eifert remains injured. Team is hoping Eifert healthy. 

So I like that we have Dalton and I like that we took the much needed Center and Blocking over Lamar Jackson and Calvin Ripley finesse players. We needed Blocking and Tackling and we got Blocking and Tackling. Now some say not enough blocking, but I point out we got Buffalo Bills Left Tackle in Free Agency and also Bills key Linebacker and both are in their 20's still.  So I like that we have Dalton and there was no need in your Lamar Jackson. Had there been, Bengal would have kept AJ McCarron.  Team needed Blocking and Tackling in this draft. They will be a better team for doing it.  NFL is not touch footy ball finesse. You need Blockers and Tacklers when you play Steelers and Ravens twice a year. 

So we have Andy Dalton who is far from retirement age. Bengals return a QB that did well last preseason, but Lasor brought in a quarterback he says fits his system. We also drafted all time leading passer for Toledo which means he can throw the ball, and he can throw it in lousy Ohio wind, rain and snow weather.  That was something Ken Anderson from Augustana could do, play in bad weather. PB Stadium has no dome.  So QB is the last thing I'm worried about on Bengals.  You may " sit here arguing about Andy ".  You may call him just, " serviceable".  I tell you Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and any other QB ever could not have did better than 6 pr 7 wins with 2016 and 2017 Bengals lack of blocking, lack of receivers, lack of rushing game, mostly lack of blocking.  I am very happy with our QB's and I hope they have addressed the no blocking problem and the no tackling problem.  I'm glad we addressed blocking and tackling as Cleveland followed you plans by drafting yet another QB as every year. Sam Wyche, I agree, and I'm glad I don't live in Cleveland, at least in football. 

I'm not arguing or complaining about Dalton every year and he is far more than serviceable.  GO Andy Dalton. GO BENGALS.  WHO DEY.  He IS our quarterback and we will have decent depth as back-ups. Hopefully Dalton starts every game as usual. GO BENGALS. If the blocking improves, which it should thanks to the new LT and C, then the rushing lanes and passing lanes open up and Dalton has proved many times that he can get this team to a play-off season if he just has some blocking. No QB ever could win without blocking. Blocking will benefit our RB's and WR's also and our Defense that spent more time on the field than any D in the NFL last season due to no blocking. Taking a Lamar Jackson over Blocking and Tackling would have been been an 0-16 Cleveland choice and not a good one. The off season we are having, the players brought in means the Window Of Opportunity for Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap to get to Super Bowl is still Open, not closed. GO BENGALS.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2018, 04:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Seriously? Why would he do that and take away from the player that was drafted?

(04-29-2018, 04:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Do you mean the 3rd round?  Maybe if they wanted to keep Rudolph from the Steelers.  Drafting Rudolph would have caused havoc.

So sorry. Editing my post.... 3rd round is what I should have said. The Steelers traded up one spot in front if the Bengals in the 3rd and when asked if they considered a QB, Marvin addressed that and mentioned the Steelers, etc.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-29-2018, 04:57 PM)PDub80 Wrote: So sorry. Editing my post.... 3rd round is what I should have said. The Steelers traded up one spot k .front if the Bengals in the 3rd and when asked if they considered a QB, Marvin addressed that and mentioned the Steelers, etc.

Would've been hard NOT to consider Rudolph there. It was a great value. I wouldn't automatically assume that considering Rudolph in the 3rd = no confidence in Dalton though. For one example, the Pats took Mallet in the 3rd round of the 2011 draft. I think the Bengals enjoyed having that chip (McCarron) in their back pocket. It was a nice backup with some trade value.

Rudolph would've been a better version of that.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Address the real problems first, like the offensive line and defensive lines. Getting caught up in drafting quarterback after quarterback gets you to 0-16 like the Browns.

You don't live in Cleveland. You live in Cincinnati!

[seab00]

(04-28-2018, 10:15 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Well ya just never know.

They probably will pick a QB next draft.  I would presume in the higher rounds.

I've heard the next crop of QBs are weaker than this class.

Time will only tell.

Darnold & Rosen wern't even the best QB,s last year in the Pac12.  He's playing this year @ AZ

[bengalsturntup926]

(04-29-2018, 06:19 PM)seab00 Wrote: Darnold & Rosen wern't even the best QB,s last year in the Pac12.  He's playing this year @ AZ

Ok and can you put a name please?

[jowczarski]

This is simple:
Joe Flacco is 33, has had back surgery, and one can argue plays much older and has been an average to bad quarterback since 2013. He also will likely have his contract restructured after this year and if not traded away being owed $103 million (!) from 18-21.
Ben Roethlisberger is 36, you know his injury history and began floating the retirement talk last year. He is only under contract through 2019.

Dalton will turn 31 this season. This team currently believes he has "high level" play (think a return to 2015/16) in him from 2018-2020. Argue about it if you will, but owner down to head coach to OC to new QB coach all believe that. It's not an absurd thought. Most feel QBs can play at a high level to about 36-37.

Now - if this team goes 6-10 and Dalton doesn't recapture that form - I say all bets are off for 2019's draft.

[Luvnit2]

(04-29-2018, 09:30 PM)jowczarski Wrote: This is simple:
Joe Flacco is 33, has had back surgery, and one can argue plays much older and has been an average to bad quarterback since 2013. He also will likely have his contract restructured after this year and if not traded away being owed $103 million (!) from 18-21.
Ben Roethlisberger is 36, you know his injury history and began floating the retirement talk last year. He is only under contract through 2019.

Dalton will turn 31 this season. This team currently believes he has "high level" play (think a return to 2015/16) in him from 2018-2020. Argue about it if you will, but owner down to head coach to OC to new QB coach all believe that. It's not an absurd thought. Most feel QBs can play at a high level to about 36-37.

Now - if this team goes 6-10 and Dalton doesn't recapture that form - I say all bets are off for 2019's draft.

TY for an expert view. We have a few Dalton haters who ignore reality. I agree, if D gets better line play in 2018, but not better production all bets off for 2019.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2018, 09:30 PM)jowczarski Wrote: This is simple:
Joe Flacco is 33, has had back surgery, and one can argue plays much older and has been an average to bad quarterback since 2013. He also will likely have his contract restructured after this year and if not traded away being owed $103 million (!) from 18-21.
Ben Roethlisberger is 36, you know his injury history and began floating the retirement talk last year. He is only under contract through 2019.

Dalton will turn 31 this season. This team currently believes he has "high level" play (think a return to 2015/16) in him from 2018-2020. Argue about it if you will, but owner down to head coach to OC to new QB coach all believe that. It's not an absurd thought. Most feel QBs can play at a high level to about 36-37.

Now - if this team goes 6-10 and Dalton doesn't recapture that form - I say all bets are off for 2019's draft.

I'm as un-trusting of Andy Dalton being able to consistently (that's the key) NOT be bad as anyone on here, but I think that's fair and reasonable of the Bengals. Plus, next year gives a two year buffer to see what whoever they draft has before needing to decide to re-up Andy into his mid/late 30s.

I love Andy Dalton the person. A+ guy. But the swings from F to A play on the field kills them.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2018, 09:42 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY for an expert view. We have a few Dalton haters who ignore reality. I agree, if D gets better line play in 2018, but not better production all bets off for 2019.

Nah, people will blame it on the new system instead of what will be the 8 year vet.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(04-28-2018, 09:57 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I will tell you why...

The Coaching staff and Front Office does not want a QB controversy. Period. If the Bengals would have drafted Rudolph, fans would be screaming for him to start after Dalton's first bad game.

I've never understood the "QB controversy crap". If the QB you have is threatened by a rookie coming in, then you don't REALLY have a good QB to begin with. You think Brady/Rodgers would care if their teams drafted a 2/3 round QB...nope. BEST PLAYER PLAYS.....simple.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-29-2018, 09:30 PM)jowczarski Wrote: This is simple:
Joe Flacco is 33, has had back surgery, and one can argue plays much older and has been an average to bad quarterback since 2013. He also will likely have his contract restructured after this year and if not traded away being owed $103 million (!) from 18-21.
Ben Roethlisberger is 36, you know his injury history and began floating the retirement talk last year. He is only under contract through 2019.

Dalton will turn 31 this season. This team currently believes he has "high level" play (think a return to 2015/16) in him from 2018-2020. Argue about it if you will, but owner down to head coach to OC to new QB coach all believe that. It's not an absurd thought. Most feel QBs can play at a high level to about 36-37.

Now - if this team goes 6-10 and Dalton doesn't recapture that form - I say all bets are off for 2019's draft.

C'mon Jim, you're not some dribbling brainless fan. I don't think Dalton is near falling off with his production, but what happens when he gets injured?

Owner to head coach on down try their best to put the best backups on the roster at every other position. There's no reason not to do it with QB as well. 

[Joelist]

I think we will see the offense come out of the gate a little off as the players adapt to both a new blocking scheme and new offensive system but even when "off" it will be much improved. As the season goes on and all the new pieces get used to working together it will be good.