The QB position

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 04:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This was in reply to the notion of "If the starter goes down, we're done". But somehow, someway this led to hating of Andy and thinking AJM is a better QB. Some folks need to pull the fat heads off the wall and get a little perspective.

If it was about a claim that "if a starter goes down we are done" then what the hell did that have to do with "excuses".

[*PhilHos*]

(05-04-2018, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If it was about a claim that "if a starter goes down we are done" then what the hell did that have to do with "excuses".

Which some of us are still waiting for evidence of. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-04-2018, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If it was about a claim that "if a starter goes down we are done" then what the hell did that have to do with "excuses".

(05-04-2018, 05:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Which some of us are still waiting for evidence of. 

Are you guys just not reading the thread? They have been provided numerous times:

AJ only had a better game because of the team......

Andy's (fill in the blank) game was better because.......

The simple fact (although apparently one VERY hard to swallow) is a back up QB gave us the best chance of winning a playoff game in over 1/4 of a Century.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-04-2018, 05:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you guys just not reading the thread? They have been provided numerous times:

AJ only had a better game because of the team......

Who said AJ only had a better game because of the team?

(05-04-2018, 05:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Andy's (fill in the blank) game was better because.......

How is this an excuse?

(05-04-2018, 05:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The simple fact (although apparently one VERY hard to swallow) is a back up QB gave us the best chance of winning a playoff game in over 1/4 of a Century.

Oh, so now it's no longer the backup QB gave us the best PERFORMANCE, now it's he gave us the best CHANCE. Forget about the starting QB having the MVP caliber season. No, the inexperienced backup QB had the best chance of winning the playoff game. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-04-2018, 05:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Who said AJ only had a better game because of the team?


How is this an excuse?


Oh, so now it's no longer the backup QB gave us the best PERFORMANCE, now it's he gave us the best CHANCE. Forget about the starting QB having the MVP caliber season. No, the inexperienced backup QB had the best chance of winning the playoff game. 

1. Everyone that commented on how great Andy was doing that season with the "same team"

2. Because as I have pointed out the world uses passer rating to determine the performance of a QB in a game. Folks making excuses  being objective are using whatever dynamic they want, such as a "slightly" overthrown ball

3. Not sure the rational behind the caps lock or the smiley thingy but: Yes, he gave us the best chance to win a playoff game in a quarter century. Do you think a broken thumbed Andy gave us a better chance?

As I said it is a simple fact but apparently one that is VERY hard to comprehend. 

[XenoMorph]

(05-04-2018, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. Everyone that commented on how great Andy was doing that season with the "same team"

2. Because as I have pointed out the world uses passer rating to determine the performance of a QB in a game. Folks making excuses  being objective are using whatever dynamic they want, such as a "slightly" overthrown ball

3. Not sure the rational behind the caps lock or the smiley thingy but: Yes, he gave us the best chance to win a playoff game in a quarter century. Do you think a broken thumbed Andy gave us a better chance?

As I said it is a simple fact but apparently one that is VERY hard to comprehend. 

All your saying here is that 2015 team was our best chance to win a playoff game in a long time.   

Any backup probly gives you a better chance than your starting QB with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

[*bfine32*]

(05-04-2018, 05:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: All your saying here is that 2015 team was our best chance to win a playoff game in a long time.   

Any backup probly gives you a better chance than your starting QB with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

So you agree with me? See the concept is not that difficult. 

BTW what was the huge difference between the Bengal team that played San Diego and the Bengal team that played Steelers?

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2018, 05:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you agree with me? See the concept is not that difficult. 

BTW what was the huge difference between the Bengal team that played San Diego and the Bengal team that played Steelers?

One defense allowed 27 points and forced no turnovers, while the other allowed 18 points and forced 2 turnovers?

[*bfine32*]

(05-04-2018, 06:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: One defense allowed 27 points and forced no turnovers, while the other allowed 18 points and forced 2 turnovers?

I believe I asked the difference in the team and not the difference in the game. Who knows perhaps one QB gave them more hope in the second half than another one.

WTS, this has gone beyond silly. I retract everything I said. A back up QB did not give us the best performance and get us closer to winning a playoff game in 1/4 century. I'll just ignore the actual facts as well and try to fit in. 

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2018, 06:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I believe I asked the difference in the team and not the difference in the game. Who knows perhaps one QB gave them more hope in the second half than another one.

WTS, this has gone beyond silly. I retract everything I said. A back up QB did not give us the best performance and get us closer to winning a playoff game in 1/4 century. I'll just ignore the actual facts as well and try to fit in. 

Because:

Quote:One defense allowed 27 points and forced no turnovers, while the other allowed 18 points and forced 2 turnovers?

If we were still within one score late (thanks to the defense), maybe Dalton looks like an (almost - not quite) hero?
Instead, Andy's defense allowed 27 and we were too far away for a comeback. Maybe if his defense held the opponent to 18 and gave him a couple short fields (via turnovers), that game would've looked different. This goes vice versa. If the defense had allowed 27 and didn't provide short fields to McCarron, is he the (almost - not quite) hero?
Keep in mind, the passer ratings were nearly identical, and McCarron had 2 turnovers himself.

[John Shaft]

(04-28-2018, 09:57 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I will tell you why...

The Coaching staff and Front Office does not want a QB controversy.  Period.  If the Bengals would have drafted Rudolph, fans would be screaming for him to start after Dalton's first bad game.

Change "does not want controversy" to does not want COMPETITION. In my opinion that's not a good thing.

[wolfkaosaun]

While I would have LOVED Lamar Jackson in the 1st round, it's understandable as to why they went center in the first round. There was a run on interior lineman and this year's interior lineman class was one of the best it's been in years.

Which is why I'm also a little peeved as to them not drafting any other offensive lineman until the 7th round.

As for QB, the Browns had their choices and went with Mayfield. Tyrod Taylor is a serviceable player who doesn't make mistakes, but also doesn't really make throws. I'd take Dalton over him. But would also take Taylor over Barkley (easily).

I wouldn't trust this coaching staff with Lamar Jackson. Just wouldn't. I like him a lot though. Just unsure how he will fare with the Ravens offensive coordinator as well.

Mason Rudolph was my 5th ranked QB. However, I'm 100% fine with the Steelers taking him. While people bring up the deep ball with him, he doesn't really have a strong arm. He lacks velocity and balls will sail on him. He's not like Ben who can improvise if the pocket closes or if he must escape. Rudolph HAS to be on schedule or else he's going to make mistakes and get out of a groove. If he's hot, he will do well. But once you disrupt his rhythm, Rudolph's play drops dramatically. He was also a 1st read quarterback and won a lot by just throwing 'go get em' passes. Now while Ben has done that with Brown and Bryant before, Bryant is already gone and that team is covered in drama.

I would have preferred drafting a backup quarterback, but the Bengals weren't going to get a quarterback that would be better than Dalton outside of Jackson. And even then, I can guarantee Jackson would fail in this system because Marvin doesn't play to his player's strengths.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-04-2018, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. Everyone that commented on how great Andy was doing that season with the "same team"

2. Because as I have pointed out the world uses passer rating to determine the performance of a QB in a game. Folks making excuses  being objective are using whatever dynamic they want, such as a "slightly" overthrown ball

3. Not sure the rational behind the caps lock or the smiley thingy but: Yes, he gave us the best chance to win a playoff game in a quarter century. Do you think a broken thumbed Andy gave us a better chance?

As I said it is a simple fact but apparently one that is VERY hard to comprehend. 

Player A 2015 stats:  25  TDs  7 Ints   106.3  QB rating


Player B 2015  stats:  6 TDs  2  ints  97.1  QB rating


I think Player A gave us the best chance of winning in 2015..  in the end AJ was a backup..  and did a good job as a backup.. the Bengals organization saw him as a backup and it seems Buffalo still does... 

[*bfine32*]

(05-04-2018, 09:25 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Player A 2015 stats:  25  TDs  7 Ints   106.3  QB rating


Player B 2015  stats:  6 TDs  2  ints  97.1  QB rating


I think Player A gave us the best chance of winning in 2015..  in the end AJ was a backup..  and did a good job as a backup.. the Bengals organization saw him as a backup and it seems Buffalo still does... 

Player A playoff stats: 55.7 passer rating, 1 TD, 6 INTs

Player B playoff stats: 68.3 passer rating, 1 TD, 1 INT

You can pick player A giving us a better chance at winning a playoff game if you want. Yes, AJ was a back up, but it doesn't change what actually happened. 

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 09:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Player A playoff stats: 55.7 passer rating, 1 TD, 6 INTs

Player B playoff stats: 68.3 passer rating, 1 TD, 1 INT

You can pick player A giving us a better chance at winning a playoff game if you want.

Why compare QB production from different years with differnt players around them?

Why not compare QBs from the same year playing with the exact same supporting cast?

Don't you think it might make a little difference throwing to Jones, Sanu, and Eifert instead of Brandon Tate, Cobi Hamilton, Greg Little, and Ryan Hewitt?

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2018, 09:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why compare QB production from different years with differnt players around them?

Why not compare QBs from the same year playing with the exact same supporting cast?

Don't you think it might make a little difference throwing to Jones, Sanu, and Eifert instead of Brandon Tate, Cobi Hamilton, Greg Little, and Ryan Hewitt?

............uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm because we were talking about playoffs. Though playoff stats might, just might be relevant. 

Sure would make a difference. Matter of fact Jones had 8 catches for 130 yards in the San Diego game and Sanu chipped in a 13 yarder. Guess I'm not sure the point of the question; a failed attempt at an excuse reason perhaps. 

[fredtoast]

(05-05-2018, 01:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ............uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm because we were talking about playoffs. Though playoff stats might, just might be relevant. 

Well they are not.  The same QBs playoff numbers will vary greatly from year to year based on the talent around them, coahing, injuries etc.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2018, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well they are not.  The same QBs playoff numbers will vary greatly from year to year based on the talent around them, coahing, injuries etc.

Okey Doke Fred. Playoff stats are not relevant when talking about playoffs games. There is not arguing with that "logic". 

[treee]

Overall, in terms of the QB position the following is true:

- Dalton is young

- He is serviceable at worst

- We needed to improve our Oline and Defense quite badly


Those are the 3 main reasons why we didn't select a QB, even though it was a deep class.

[fredtoast]

(05-05-2018, 05:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Okey Doke Fred. Playoff stats are not relevant when talking about playoffs games. There is not arguing with that "logic". 

Mark Sanchez has a higher career playoff passer rating than Tom Brady.

Which one would you chose as your QB if you had to win a playoff game?