Just realized what might be holding this franchise back..im

[impactplaya]

Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

[CJD]

Every team has busts.

[Sweetness]

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

All those lines man...But I find it funny you aren't going to name every pick over the past 4 years bit cherry pick 1 pick from other teams that have done well acting like we couldn't do the same for us. Now if you want to talk about our failure at first round picks over the past few years I can get on board but your way of trying to show our drafts have been poor just doesn't make sense. 

Please don't say baby Watt is an impact player. 

[HarleyDog]

It's possible, but you get rid of him? We have nothing. He actually could be the reason for the only success we've known without a scouting department. Call me crazy, I don't know.

[impactplaya]

(05-17-2018, 06:41 PM)Sweetness Wrote: All those lines man...But I find it funny you aren't going to name every pick over the past 4 years bit cherry pick 1 pick from other teams that have done well acting like we couldn't do the same for us. Now if you want to talk about our failure at first round picks over the past few years I can get on board but your way of trying to show our drafts have been poor just doesn't make sense. 

Please don't say baby Watt is an impact player. 

how are those 2014 and 2015 drafts turning out for the Bengals ?
how many elite players have materialized from those drafts?
when your a,franchise that builds through the draft and adds marginal pieces through free agency you have to hit on more than 30% of your picks or at least add difference makers 
sorry im seeing more misses than hits 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-17-2018, 08:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: how are those 2014 and 2015 drafts turning out for the Bengals ?
how many elite players have materialized from those drafts?
when your a,franchise that builds through the draft and adds marginal pieces through free agency you have to hit on more than 30% of your picks or at least add difference makers 
sorry im seeing more misses than hits 

The draft is what it is, a crapshoot.  Some years, you might get lucky and hit well on a handful of picks that pan out to be starters.  Other years, you might get lucky to have a player or two on the roster, 5 years down the road.  

The important thing to remember is that the draft is only one part of building a team.  Free Agency, Trades, and UDFA signings all come into play to complete the equation.  

FWIW, this is the first time in a long time that I actually feel like the Bengals did a good job utilizing ALL of the tools available in order to improve the roster stock.

[Sweetness]

(05-17-2018, 08:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: how are those 2014 and 2015 drafts turning out for the Bengals ?
how many elite players have materialized from those drafts?
when your a,franchise that builds through the draft and adds marginal pieces through free agency you have to hit on more than 30% of your picks or at least add difference makers 
sorry im seeing more misses than hits 

I'll give you the 2015 draft but the 2014 really wasnt that bad. I mean 4 of the 7 made contributions to the team and will still be starting on others. And again, you're being exceptionally close minded to think every team doesn't have years where they didn't get all-star players. 

Jeremy Hill's rookie year was equally or more impressive than any of the hand picked players you named.

[livebythe10]

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

You act like every pick the steelers have taken is superior. Which is not true. 

They have implementeda system and have a coach that doesn't joke around and laugh when a player completely screws the pooch in a game. There is discipline. 

I hate the squeelers yet their coach will climb all up in a guys poop shoot and completely tear him apart and hold him accountable for their actions.

Lewis kinda laughs it off. I don't see the passion in him.  

Yet without this system juju would be a scrub. He feasts on the fact brown is double covered every play, and the line backers and safeties always have to always look for bell out of the backfield.

Hopefully we get away from the horrible idea of the 2 yard pass hoping a receiver breaks a play.

We draft well. I think we did great this year. We already have talent. It's lighting a fire under them and making them play like men !!

No more being a punching bag. I don't care if it leafsleads to suspension you hit these guys hard. You make them fear us.  Its time for us to be the bully.

Bullcrap about draft. We draft great. We just have coaches that let our guys think it's OK to get pushed around. That needs to end now !!

[HarleyDog]

(05-17-2018, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The draft is what it is, a crapshoot.  Some years, you might get lucky and hit well on a handful of picks that pan out to be starters.  Other years, you might get lucky to have a player or two on the roster, 5 years down the road.  

The important thing to remember is that the draft is only one part of building a team.  Free Agency, Trades, and UDFA signings all come into play to complete the equation.  

FWIW, this is the first time in a long time that I actually feel like the Bengals did a good job utilizing ALL of the tools available in order to improve the roster stock.

I agree. Although I didn’t like all the pics, there was merit to all and how they could address our club. I wanted just one friggen more OL to be stoked. Yet, as I’ve said before and will say again, I’m not a coach and I don’t quite see the possibilities in our failure as those who believe they can resurrect.

As you say, it’s a crapshoot. Damn, I can’t even figure out if I will hear Laurel or Yanney tomorrow? I heard both today. Tomorrow is another day.

[Beaker]

(05-17-2018, 08:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: sorry im seeing more misses than hits 

And when you look at the other teams you mentioned you'll see the same thing.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-17-2018, 06:48 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: It's possible, but you get rid of him? We have nothing. He actually could be the reason for the only success we've known without a scouting department. Call me crazy, I don't know.

Exactly, no way should we get rid of duke. I love How all these madden guys think it’s so easy to find replacements who will automatically homeruns. I swear a lot of younger bengal fans would prefer to be like the browns so they can talk draft and pff stats. While the season is just an annoyance to get back to draft and pff.

[Jpoore]

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

Yes the 2015 draft was bad. But vigil wasnt a high draft pick he was late third round and this should be his breakout year. He comes from the mountain west where more often than not it takes 2 years to adjust to NFL . Malone was late 4th? Core was what a 6th? But  u wanna look at Pitt? Took a 4th round graded safety in the first, drafted Artie burns in the first need I go on?

[TKUHL]

(05-17-2018, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The draft is what it is, a crapshoot.  Some years, you might get lucky and hit well on a handful of picks that pan out to be starters.  Other years, you might get lucky to have a player or two on the roster, 5 years down the road.  

The important thing to remember is that the draft is only one part of building a team.  Free Agency, Trades, and UDFA signings all come into play to complete the equation.  

FWIW, this is the first time in a long time that I actually feel like the Bengals did a good job utilizing ALL of the tools available in order to improve the roster stock.

I get the feeling, but the moves they made recently are voids left over from their mistakes. I know we can't keep every player and it's better than it used to be when players couldn't wait to get outa town. letting Whit go was a mistake that we hope is fixed with Glenn. Zeitler I won't use cause he was wanting too much but I would rather have him than Swagger. Nelson was a loss we yet to fill, Mo and M.Jones are still hurting us till one of these young WR's steps up. We are getting deep at a few positions and it's nice to see that we are trying to fix some of the problems by means other than just the draft. But these young players do need to step it up.

[Lawless_1]

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

I love how you throw up Jesse James when our back up TE had a better season last year than he has had either year as a pro....   

[grampahol]

Damn.. Too bad we couldn't draft guys like 
Geno Atkins or AJ Green, WJ3, etc.. We get scrubs like Vontez Burfict from college free agency. No wonder we always lose! 

[Bilbo Saggins]

He assembled quite the roster in 2015.  Could you imagine what that team might've done had they ponied up a lot of money for outside talent?  Or if the coaching staff knew how to use a loaded roster?  Or if Dalton hadn't been injured?  Or all 3?  


Tobin has been handcuffed by a sort of odd, rigid front office strategy imo.  They've bled a lot of talent in free agency while refusing to try to replace it with "other teams's" players.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

If you look around the league and compare drafts with the following criteria:  Pro Bowlers, Starters, Back-ups, Other teams, Out of the league, you will see that the Bengals are probably in the upper half of the league.  The Patriots might be one of the worst, but they have Brady and Bellichek.  

Coaching, to me, is a big part of what makes teams successful in the NFL.  The talent levels are very similar across many teams, and coaching distinguishes the winners from the also-rans.  Look at what McVeigh did with the Rams after they finally got rid of Fisher.  

I think the absolute biggest reason for the recent demise was the loss of Hue Jackson on offense, paired with putting all their chips on Ced at LT and no real back up plan.  Both of those things have been addressed.  Will it be enough?  Will we find another hole in the dyke that needs plugged or will the team rise up?  I don't know, but I am hoping for the best and I will be watching. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-18-2018, 08:53 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: He assembled quite the roster in 2015.  Could you imagine what that team might've done had they ponied up a lot of money for outside talent?  Or if the coaching staff knew how to use a loaded roster?  Or if Dalton hadn't been injured?  Or all 3?  


Tobin has been handcuffed by a sort of odd, rigid front office strategy imo.  They've bled a lot of talent in free agency while refusing to try to replace it with "other teams's" players.  

I agree, and that is what prompted me to mention earlier that for the first time in a long time;  I think the team has done a decent job of utilizing ALL of the tools available to them in building a roster.  I also think we'll see a few more additions before the season begins.

What or who those additions might be?  I don't know.  We'll just have to wait and see, as training camp and preseason play out.  There are always plenty of talented, veteran players looking for teams that time of year.

[fredtoast]

It is correct that when a team depends almost entirely on the draft then they have to hit on every draft. The '15 draft was a complete bust. that one draft ended up derailing our plans for the last two seasons.

However it is incorrect to say that all of our recent drafts have been busts. I'd say they have been as good as most other teams in the league. So there is no need to get rid of Tobin.

When you consider how weak we are in free agency you have to admit that either Tobin was elite at selecting players or our coaches were elite at developing them in order for us to make the playoffs 5 years in a row. We accomplished that while having our hands tied behind our back during free agency.

[BenZoo2]

(05-18-2018, 09:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is correct that when a team depends almost entirely on the draft then they have to hit on every draft. The '15 draft was a complete bust. that one draft ended up derailing our plans for the last two seasons.

However it is incorrect to say that all of our recent drafts have been busts. I'd say they have been as good as most other teams in the league. So there is no need to get rid of Tobin.

When you consider how weak we are in free agency you have to admit that either Tobin was elite at selecting players or our coaches were elite at developing them in order for us to make the playoffs 5 years in a row. We accomplished that while having our hands tied behind our back during free agency.

I would tend to agree with you that on point 1. When relying on the draft to replenish your roster you need to have a higher % of hits than the league average.

I would tend to agree here as well. Too early to rate the last 2 drafts. This year we will be when we can start to really evaluate the ‘16 draft.

I don’t know that I’m fully on board here. Aj has performed as he should given his draft position. Probably the same as dalton. Geno was a big hit.

But also during that playoff run some teams were way down across the afc. The afc east was a joke outside New England. Half the south was not good. The West was ok and couldn’t really separate themselves with the exception of Denver. It wasn’t exactly a battle royale for that last playoff spot when 7-9 to 9-7 had you in contention.

This is a stretch where ebenezer could have “gone for it” and didn’t put his team over the hump. The broken thumb in ‘15 really hurt, no pun intended


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