Best Bengal to wear #82

[Shake n Blake]

No disrespect to Holman (he was very good), but we have people on here saying he was an all-time great and FAR better than McGee, but the stats say otherwise. He wasn't even the best TE in team history (Trumpy was), but he's an all-time great? Far better than a guy that put up similar stats with far inferior QB play?

Put Tony on that team with Boomer and all that play action, and I bet he'd be the one people remember fondly. Heck, he put up nearly identical numbers to Holman with QB's like Klingler, Akili and Frerotte.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-20-2018, 06:02 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Holman hands down

yet was a fan of each listed

Ditto. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-21-2018, 02:56 PM)shanebo Wrote: This.  Loved Tony McGee, but Holman was just on another level -- in the conversation of all-time great TEs, IMO.


Unfortunately no video clips/advanced stats since Holman pre-dated YouTube and PFF ... but the secondary sources all seem to agree with my recollection that Holman was, in fact, an excellent blocker.  

- Holman consistently posted solid numbers for the Bengals while being an excellent blocker. “His blocking is a pretty thing to watch.”[34] - Tiger Johnson.  http://highwaytohalloffame.blogspot.com/2014/01/road-to-hall-closed-to-tight-ends.html


- ``It`s hard to find a guy who can do both. Usually what you end up finding is a guy who is a real good blocker and an average receiver or a guy who is a pretty good receiver and not a very good blocker.``There are so few who can do both.  The best all-round tight ends, those who combine blocking and catching, are Steve Jordan of the Minnesota Vikings, Mark Bavaro of the New York Giants and Rodney Holman of the Cincinnati Bengals.  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-11-19/sports/8903110422_1_tight-average-receiver-guy


- A 3-time Pro Bowl selection from 1988 to 1990, Holman's superb blocking and pass catching abilities were a great asset to his team, and assisted the Bengals to an NFL championship appearance in Super Bowl XIII.  https://upclosed.com/people/rodney-holman/


- A noted blocker and receiver ... https://allstatesugarbowl.org/classic/rodney-holman-hall-of-fame/


- Holman was noted as a superb receiver and blocker.  https://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/16/2278839/poll-best-bengals-player-to-wear-no-82-in-franchise-history


- Holman's superb blocking and pass catching abilities were a great asset to his team.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Holman


- Versatile player who was an excellent blocker and good pass receiver with speed and strength to make big plays.  http://www.bengals.com/first50.html


- Unlike many of the stars at the position today, Holman was both an able blocker and a great pass-catcher.  https://www.cincyjungle.com/veteransofcincinnati/2016/6/23/11998724/which-bengals-from-the-1980s-would-you-want-on-the-2016-roster


- He was an excellent blocker as well as a receiver.  http://bravestarrcards.com/rodney-holman-ttm-success/


- He gave the Bengals something extra as a receiver and blocker.  http://buffalonews.com/1989/12/22/reed-ritcher-thomas-make-felser-all-pro/


I was only able to find a single source claiming that Holman was not a good blocker -- your post.

(05-21-2018, 05:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: As someone who watched every game that Rodney played as a Bengal and knows the respect he earned around the league as both a talented receiver and an very effective blocker - it was just weird to hear someone say he wasn't a 'good blocker'.

I've never talked to or heard any fan - who actually watched him play - question his blocking. As Shanebo posted,  just about anytime you see a reference to Holman's play/career, his blocking is talked about in addition to his pass catching skills - and for good reason.

I think if you can find and watch some of his games online somewhere, you'll come away very impressed.

I stand corrected, will shut up and crawl back into the hole, whence I came from. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-20-2018, 02:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McGee played with better receivers (Pickens and Darnay). Still produced similar numbers to Holman with inferior QB play.

It's kind of amazing how similar those eras were. Both TEs were young and in their prime. They both had very good #1 and #2 receivers (who both only participated in 5 of the 6 years i'll post below), young and in their prime and they both had really good QBs (holman more the mcgee) throwing the ball for a period of time. 

Holman had the benefit of a QB that put up good numbers every year, while he had the disadvantage of playing along side of not only good receivers but also Mr. James Brooks, who had a lot of catches and yards in those years. 

It's hard to pick one over the other because how similar they are, but Holman is going to get the nod because of the era he played in and the guys he played with that won playoff games and went to a SB. 

Just gonna throw these numbers in since i spent the time putting them together. 

2 different 6 year spans which were the prime of the 2 TEs. 
catches, yards, TDs

holman         85-90
235  3346  28

brown
304  5307  39
mcgee          (5 years)
183  3318  17
brooks
223  2396  23


 
mcgee         93-98
233  2994  16

pickens         
447  5824  56
scott         (5 years)
261  4134  27 
RB?? (by committee)

[John Shaft]

Rodney Holman hands down. There is no grading curve based on playing on crappy teams.

[shanebo]

(05-21-2018, 11:30 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I stand corrected, will shut up and crawl back into the hole, whence I came from. 

LOL.  Don't get me wrong, I love McGee -- he was a very good player for the Bengals, but generally more of a "safety valve"/third-option type player.  Holman was dynamic.  When they spread him wide and he beat a cb or fs on a flag or post it was awesome.  From the late 80s until the early 90s, after Winslow and Christensen had retired and Newsome had begun to fade, Holman was the best TE in the NFL not named Keith Jackson (and that was a close call).  Certainly the best in the AFC, probably until Shannon Sharpe came into his own.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-22-2018, 12:26 PM)shanebo Wrote: LOL.  Don't get me wrong, I love McGee -- he was a very good player for the Bengals, but generally more of a "safety valve"/third-option type player.  Holman was dynamic.  When they spread him wide and he beat a cb or fs on a flag or post it was awesome.  From the late 80s until the early 90s, after Winslow and Christensen had retired and Newsome had begun to fade, Holman was the best TE in the NFL not named Keith Jackson (and that was a close call).  Certainly the best in the AFC, probably until Shannon Sharpe came into his own.  

Essentially, I'll never trust videogames again (where I was getting that he wasn't a good blocker) in a conversation like this!