John '2 fast 2 film' Ross

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-25-2018, 02:41 PM)3wt Wrote: You're right it's a team game, and this year there are a lot of moving pieces that need to be better.   But having Ross produce enough to be a significant threat opposite Green would make a significant difference.

I'm hoping upgrades at OL, Safety, DL and Linebacker pan out this year.

But you can't blame any of us for being intrigued to see if Ross pans out according to our hopes and dreams we had last year - however unrealistic they may have been.

I mean the loss of Marvin Jones had a significant impact the following year. 

As usual man, great post.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-20-2018, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Three of the last 5 years he has been healthy.

Sixty percent of the time, he's healthy every time.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-25-2018, 11:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Sixty percent of the time, he's healthy every time.

Well you could say the same about AJ Green, but no one is labelling him as fragile.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-25-2018, 02:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know why you keep bring up Hunt.  He knew the playbook.  Ross did not.  There is no comparison.

Both fumbled on their first carry.  One sat one was given another chance.  One went on to have a great rookie season, one didn't.  One played for a team that made the playoffs, and one didn't.  There is a comparison and it all started to go downhill when he never got another shot.  

[*ochocincos*]

For this offense to truly become good again in the passing game, they need another consistent receiving threat (or two) to make teams pay for doubling or tripling AJ all the time. But even for a guy like Ross who has ridiculous speed, the OL needs to be able to still give Dalton 3+ seconds so the players have a chance to separate and stretch the field. It's important to remember that every receiver takes at least 4 seconds to get 40 yards down the field, so blocking for only 2 seconds results in (much) shorter passes.

[*Go Cards*]

The thing about Hunt is that he clearly won job in camp and preseason before that early fumble.

Heard about him on an interview where local writer was saying it was a great problem Chiefs had stumbled across. Said the kid had been so good in camp that the coaches knew he was the starter but were not playing him there in early preseason out of respect for older players.

Guess not many heard because was able to steal him very late in fantasy draft.

Plus a lot of his stats come in the first few games.

in his first 5 games Hunt averaged 121.8 yds per carry but in next 11 games only 65.2 yds per carry.

Went through a 7 game stretch where he only averaged 45.8 yds per carry in games 6-11. But seems to have a very good career ahead of him and has the speed to turn the corner in NFL which not many do.

Yet still get the argument that if Marvin thought Ross was ready and played him early. Then a fumble on first play which was a first down and believe a nice 11 yd gain should not have benched him basically for the rest of the year.

If Ross kills it this year then it will really bring into question Marvins decisions on when to start and or play rookies. Obviously he does play rookies but that is mostly out of need and they did not really beat out a starters but inherit vacant positions. If starter is already there then they usually sit under Marvin for year or so no matter their potential it seems.

In my mind when you do this to potentially star players in NFL you waste a valuable asset that is playing on the cheap while still on rookie contract. These types can get team over the hump when mixed with the high paid stars already on roster. But waiting allows only a small window of opportunity for that and they can walk via FA right afterwards just when they are coming into their own.

Last season ended early for Bengals and there was ample time to check this kid out in meaningless games and get him experience.

It is puzzling somewhat, unless he just flops. Which obviously hoping not.

[*Go Cards*]

(06-26-2018, 10:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: For this offense to truly become good again in the passing game, they need another consistent receiving threat (or two) to make teams pay for doubling or tripling AJ all the time. But even for a guy like Ross who has ridiculous speed, the OL needs to be able to still give Dalton 3+ seconds so the players have a chance to separate and stretch the field. It's important to remember that every receiver takes at least 4 seconds to get 40 yards down the field, so blocking for only 2 seconds results in (much) shorter passes.

Can not argue with this logic. No matter how fast Ross is the O-line was not giving that sort of protection. 

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2018, 08:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Both fumbled on their first carry.  One sat one was given another chance.  One went on to have a great rookie season, one didn't.  One played for a team that made the playoffs, and one didn't.  There is a comparison and it all started to go downhill when he never got another shot.  

One knew the playbook and one didn't.

Why do you think the only way they could get the ball to ross was on a reverse?

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2018, 10:14 AM)Go Cards Wrote: If Ross kills it this year then it will really bring into question Marvins decisions on when to start and or play rookies.

No it won't.  Ross has admitted that he did not know the playbook and tried to hide his shoulder injury from the coaches.

(06-26-2018, 10:14 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Obviously he does play rookies but that is mostly out of need and they did not really beat out a starters but inherit vacant positions. If starter is already there then they usually sit under Marvin for year or so no matter their potential it seems. 

Marvin plays just as many rookies and young players as the average NFL coach.  I have posted the numbers to prove this multiple times.  Just a little over half of the first round picks (18) from the 2017 draft were starters as rookies.  It is pretty much true for EVERY team that unless there is a hole to fill it is hard for a rookie to win a starting job.

[cooper]

billy hamilton has tremendous speed..too bad he cant hit a baseball

ross has tremendous speed..too bad he cant stay healthy and has always had a problem with route recognition

you can hope and milk it all you want..wont change a thing

[SunsetBengal]

(06-26-2018, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: One knew the playbook and one didn't.

Why do you think the only way they could get the ball to ross was on a reverse?

(06-26-2018, 10:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No it won't.  Ross has admitted that he did not know the playbook and tried to hide his shoulder injury from the coaches.



Marvin plays just as many rookies and young players as the average NFL coach.  I have posted the numbers to prove this multiple times.  Just a little over half of the first round picks (18) from the 2017 draft were starters as rookies.  It is pretty much true for EVERY team that unless there is a hole to fill it is hard for a rookie to win a starting job.

It's not often that I find myself in complete agreement with fredtoast' opinions, but this is one of those times.

Much of Ross' lack of playing time was brought on by not having himself prepared for his job.  As a professional athlete, it is his duty to know the playbook, and to keep his body in optimal condition.

People can try to blame Marvin all they want to, but the fact is Ross wasn't prepared to do his job.  I'm sure that bristled Marvin in the worst way, just like any other boss would be, if their new "star" employee came to work unprepared.

[cooper]

(06-26-2018, 10:15 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Can not argue with this logic. No matter how fast Ross is the O-line was not giving that sort of protection. 

the bengals have other talented receivers

[cooper]

(06-26-2018, 10:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's not often that I find myself in complete agreement with fredtoast' opinions, but this is one of those times.

Much of Ross' lack of playing time was brought on by not having himself prepared for his job.  As a professional athlete, it is his duty to know the playbook, and to keep his body in optimal condition.

People can try to blame Marvin all they want to, but the fact is Ross wasn't prepared to do his job.  I'm sure that bristled Marvin in the worst way, just like any other boss would be, if their new "star" employee came to work unprepared.

ross had problems with route recognition in college

[XenoMorph]

(06-26-2018, 10:36 AM)cooper Wrote: ross had problems with route recognition in college

you keep repeating this like its the only thing you know how to say?

You got an article that talks about this?   or is this how you FEEL?

[SunsetBengal]

(06-26-2018, 10:51 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: you keep repeating this like its the only thing you know how to say?

You got an article that talks about this?   or is this how you FEEL?

It's all been out there.  Just read the draft profile..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/john-ross?id=2558010


Now, take a look at AJ Green's draft profile.  Notice a difference?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/a.j.-green?id=2495450

[*ochocincos*]

(06-26-2018, 11:03 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's all been out there.  Just read the draft profile..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/john-ross?id=2558010


Now, take a look at AJ Green's draft profile.  Notice a difference?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/a.j.-green?id=2495450

Needing to sharpen his routes (as I interpret as sloppy route running) and not having route recognition are two different things.
I interpret not having route recognition as not being capable of running more than a few simple routes or often running the wrong routes altogether. Someone can run sloppy routes but still be running the proper route as assigned.

So I'm with Xeno in that I haven't seen any reports stating he has trouble grasping a playbook and/or limited route tree experience.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-26-2018, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Needing to sharpen his routes (as I interpret as sloppy route running) and not having route recognition are two different things.
I interpret not having route recognition as not being capable of running more than a few simple routes or often running the wrong routes altogether. Someone can run sloppy routes but still be running the proper route as assigned.

So I'm with Xeno in that I haven't seen any reports stating he has trouble grasping a playbook and/or limited route tree experience.

I found the part about tripping over things that aren't there, to be interesting.

Anyway, all of the signs that Ross was going to be developmental are outlined in that report.  No one should have expected much out of him last year.  Personally, taking a guy with a 6.19 grade in the top 10 was a bit of a reach, when you consider that AJ Green was a polished player with an 8.14 grade.

Since it's all water under the bridge, at this point, I'm pulling for Ross to keep it together and make an impact.

[cooper]

in college, they ran ross down the field as fast as he could go..never good "route recognition" nor did he have to do so.

does not work in the NFL..corners and safeties too fast and talented

people have hard time dealing with facts..ross was injured and did not know where to go when he played..he was benched

but..he miraculously will become another Jerry Rice because of the positive comments from training camp..aside from disappointing injuries..you very rarely hear anything negative from preseason training camps

[cooper]

(06-26-2018, 11:47 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I found the part about tripping over things that aren't there, to be interesting.

Anyway, all of the signs that Ross was going to be developmental are outlined in that report.  No one should have expected much out of him last year.  Personally, taking a guy with a 6.19 grade in the top 10 was a bit of a reach, when you consider that AJ Green was a polished player with an 8.14 grade.

Since it's all water under the bridge, at this point, I'm pulling for Ross to keep it together and make an impact.

we needed two offensive linemen and you dont take someone that is a top ten pick ( aside from quarterback) that is developmental

[cooper]

(06-26-2018, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Needing to sharpen his routes (as I interpret as sloppy route running) and not having route recognition are two different things.
I interpret not having route recognition as not being capable of running more than a few simple routes or often running the wrong routes altogether. Someone can run sloppy routes but still be running the proper route as assigned.

So I'm with Xeno in that I haven't seen any reports stating he has trouble grasping a playbook and/or limited route tree experience.

sloppy route running in the NFL gets you benched in the NFL