NFL.com has Marvin 20th in HC rankings

[Bilbo Saggins]

(07-04-2018, 12:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, how can a guy who still can't make in-game adjustments after 17 years as a head coach be underrated?  

Who else in the entire league saw Mike Zimmer coming after what appeared to be a middling performance in Dallas? Jay Gruden? Where would this team be if the coaching staff hadn't been raided so frequently?

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2018, 12:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, how can a guy who still can't make in-game adjustments after 17 years as a head coach be underrated?  

Maybe the rankings are done by uneducated fans who believe that Marvin does not make in game adjustments.

Since he became head coach bengals are in the top half of the league in winning percentage in games they trailed at some point.  A team must be making some adjustments if they come from behind to win that much.

[BengalChris]

(07-03-2018, 07:55 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think the difference here is going to be the OC and DC. Marvin won’t be calling the plays (and he really didn’t before) and if he tries to take the foot off the gas, they will be the first to say “shut up and chill while we make you look great.”

That is what it's going to take.

[Hoofhearted]

(07-04-2018, 02:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: On the flip side you could make the case that outside of that one skill he is pretty solid at everything else. Talent evaluation, players' effort, players' respect, ability to recruit good coordinators. 

He's not a bum like some make him out to be out here. With that said I am not satisfied with average, I feel we need an above average to excellent head coach if we want to have any chance at making a super bowl run.

You can add having a disciplined team in there as well. I think they respect Marv, but don't fear him. I think Marv #1 shortcoming is he's not a great leader. He's a guy who holds a leadership position. But I think he's a little better than 20...he's pretty much owned Harbaugh, but I'd put him around 15 or so.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2018, 07:55 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think the difference here is going to be the OC and DC. Marvin won’t be calling the plays (and he really didn’t before) and if he tries to take the foot off the gas, they will be the first to say “shut up and chill while we make you look great.”

(07-03-2018, 10:32 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Let's hope they take over ! I think this has been ML's biggest downfall. He's always on the cusp of pulling back on the offensive reins.

(07-04-2018, 03:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That is what it's going to take.

Marvin has never lost a game by being too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But in '10 he lost to Tampa Bay because he wass too aggressive and was throwing the ball at the end of the game when he should have been running.

[lostpoet2]

I read the article and noted that these are power rankings, which I interpret as being more correlated to a ranking of their coaching resumes. If you ranked for a 32-team head coaching draft (assuming the goal is to win the super bowl), the order would be vastly different. For example, McCarthy would go much later than #6 and Shanahan would go much, much earlier than #23.

[bengals67]

Marvin should have been fired several different times in the last few years.

There is only one professional or major college team that world still employ Marvin.

[fredtoast]

(07-05-2018, 10:45 AM)lostpoet2 Wrote:  If you ranked for a 32-team head coaching draft (assuming the goal is to win the super bowl), the order would be vastly different.  For example, McCarthy would go much later than #6 and Shanahan would go much, much earlier than #23.

[BengalChris]

(07-05-2018, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has never lost a game by being too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But in '10 he lost to Tampa Bay because he wass too aggressive and was throwing the ball at the end of the game when he should have been running.

Then why is it that I always seem to feel we are doomed when we have small lead in the second half and I see us run it on 1st and 2nd down?

Maybe it wasn't really that way, but it sure seemed like we'd run it on 1st down into a defense expecting us to run it on first down and getting nothing.

Then repeat on 2nd down.

Then the defense is back on the field.

[fredtoast]

(07-05-2018, 12:21 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Then why is it that I always seem to feel we are doomed when we have small lead in the second half and I see us run it on 1st and 2nd down?

Maybe it wasn't really that way, but it sure seemed like we'd run it on 1st down into a defense expecting us to run it on first down and getting nothing.

Then repeat on 2nd down.

Then the defense is back on the field.

If it always happens then you don't have a problem giving me a specific example do you?  Funny how some people say this is Marvin's "biggest fault" but when I ask for a specific example they can't give me one.

Also when they claim that great coaches like Belichick "never take the foot off the gas" I can provide multiple examples of Belichick being much more conservative with a lead in the second half. 

I'll admit that sometimes the Bengals get outplayed in the second half.  But it is "poor play" not "too conservative play calling".

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-05-2018, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has never lost a game by being too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But in '10 he lost to Tampa Bay because he wass too aggressive and was throwing the ball at the end of the game when he should have been running.

Example - Last Steeler game of last year, up big at Halftime. End up losing this game by being too conservative.

Don't ever say the word never Fred, it has happened lots of times.

And it doesn't even mean running the ball too much, it means doing what is working, could be on the OC, could
be on Marv but i don't believe in coincidences.

We should of ran the ball on the Chargers in the Playoff game yet we went away from what is working, could be
on Jay, could be on Marv.

[fredtoast]

(07-05-2018, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Example - Last Steeler game of last year, up big at Halftime. End up losing this game by being too conservative.

Bengals only called a total of seven runs the entire second half compared to 17 passes.

(07-05-2018, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We should of ran the ball on the Chargers in the Playoff game yet we went away from what is working, could be
on Jay, could be on Marv.

Andy Dalton had a 120 passer rating in the first half of that game (12-17, 164 yds, 1 td, 0 int) while Bernard and Green-Ellis had just 53 rushing yards.

In the 2nd half we came out and ran the ball on 5 of our first 6 first downs but gained 3 yards or fewer 4 of those 5 times.

If we had kept running the ball with those results in the second half you guys would have been complaining about how we "got away from the pass that was working so well in the first half".

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-05-2018, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals only called a total of seven runs the entire second half compared to 17 passes.


Andy Dalton had a 120 passer rating in the first half of that game (12-17, 164 yds, 1 td, 0 int) while Bernard and Green-Ellis had just 53 rushing yards.

In the 2nd half we came out and ran the ball on 5 of our first 6 first downs but gained 3 yards or fewer 4 of those 5 times.

If we had kept running the ball with those results in the second half you guys would have been complaining about how we "got away from the pass that was working so well in the first half".

Good stats as always Fred, just saying that there is a lot more that goes into it.

Marv's teams just choke in the Playoffs and Primetime games, pretty much always have.

Hoping with the changes with the new OC, O-line Coach and DC change this for him and all of us.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-03-2018, 07:32 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: There's some ones I don't agree with at the top. Especially Harbuagh at 5 and Gruden already at 9.

But yeah, about 20 is where I would rank Marvin too. Last year, however, was some of the worst coaching I've seen. Marvin was an awful leader last year.

Gruden might be a little hype, but you also can't put him too low since he won a SB and has a 100-85 coaching record.

Harbaugh actually seems about right. The Ravens have been broken for a couple years now, but people forget he's won 10 playoff games (out of 15), and a SB. That said, I could probably see an argument for him being a spot or two lower due to recent events.


- - - - - - - - - - -

My biggest problem is Zimmer should probably be higher than 10, taking Case Keenum to a 13-3 record and a playoff win.


Also Pete Carroll is overrated. Anyone who has the ball on the 1 yard line in the SB with the game on the line and doesn't hand it off to Marshawn Lynch is perma-banned from being in the Top-5. (Just like how Newton is perma-banned from ever being in the Top-5 for jumping away from his fumble in the SB.)

[Hoofhearted]

(07-05-2018, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has never lost a game by being too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But in '10 he lost to Tampa Bay because he wass too aggressive and was throwing the ball at the end of the game when he should have been running.

Packers game last year?

[bengals67]

:andy: :andy: :andy:

Plus any game against the Steelers.

No other organization would have tolerated Marv's record for so long.

(quoting Nate)

[cooper]

(07-04-2018, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe the rankings are done by uneducated fans who believe that Marvin does not make in game adjustments.

Since he became head coach bengals are in the top half of the league in winning percentage in games they trailed at some point.  A team must be making some adjustments if they come from behind to win that much.

and yet..marvin has not won a single playoff game ..in what 14-15 years..something amiss

[cooper]

(07-06-2018, 12:12 PM)bengals67 Wrote: :andy: :andy: :andy:

Plus any game against the Steelers.

No other organization would have tolerated Marv's record for so long.

(quoting Nate)

marvin lewis is a good man...and I give him credit for having to work under the Brown Family..yet sometimes change is good for a team

[sandwedge]

(07-05-2018, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals only called a total of seven runs the entire second half compared to 17 passes.


Andy Dalton had a 120 passer rating in the first half of that game (12-17, 164 yds, 1 td, 0 int) while Bernard and Green-Ellis had just 53 rushing yards.

In the 2nd half we came out and ran the ball on 5 of our first 6 first downs but gained 3 yards or fewer 4 of those 5 times.

If we had kept running the ball with those results in the second half you guys would have been complaining about how we "got away from the pass that was working so well in the first half".

So why did we come out running the ball in the 2nd half, if the passing game was working in the 1st half?

[fredtoast]

(07-05-2018, 08:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Marv's teams just choke in the Playoffs and Primetime games, pretty much always have.

(07-06-2018, 12:34 PM)cooper Wrote: and yet..marvin has not won a single playoff game ..in what 14-15 years..something amiss

Yes.  I agree.