Senzel to LF

[Hoofhearted]

Read that the Reds are putting Senzel is LF for instructional league (maybe cactus).

I agree with everything Doug said on here too. This means Hamilton is coming back.

Guessing the extend Rigs & Harvey too.  

[CJD]

These are the kinds of decisions a team makes when they stubbornly hold onto a hot trade piece who is stuck playing the infield because of a weak arm (Scooter).

[Hoofhearted]

(09-18-2018, 08:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: These are the kinds of decisions a team makes when they stubbornly hold onto a hot trade piece who is stuck playing the infield because of a weak arm they "like" him (Scooter).

Fixed that for you 

But yeah, I wonder if he'll undergo surgery this off-season? Either way, I don't understand why they have such a deep infatuation for him and B-Ham. Both good players, but both one trick ponies; One hit exceptionally well, the other plays exceptional defense. Position flexibility and good bat should be what they're looking for.

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 09:10 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote:  Position flexibility and good bat should be what they're looking for.

And that is exactly what they are doing.  Senzel learning to play OF gives them more position flexibility.  Schebler is more likely to play CF than Senzel if they are both on the roster next year.

I can see getting rid of either Hamilton or Gennett to make a spot for Senzel, but we don't have prospects to fill both spots right now.

I was a huge fan of Hamilton, but he just has not progressed.  His defense is amazing but I don't think it makes up for his offensive liability.  Gennett struggles some with defense, but his offense far outweighs his defensive liability.  So I see Hamilton as the one who should go.

Don't understand the hate for Gennett around here.  The guy is not a one-year flash-in-the-pan like Cozart.  He is a legit All Star.  And while I think Senzel looks like a good prospect I have seen other good prospects flop in the majors.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-19-2018, 09:10 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Fixed that for you 

But yeah, I wonder if he'll undergo surgery this off-season? Either way, I don't understand why they have such a deep infatuation for him and B-Ham. Both good players, but both one trick ponies; One hit exceptionally well, the other plays exceptional defense. Position flexibility and good bat should be what they're looking for.

Good to hear Senzel is making progress.

I could see keeping B.H. on a stacked team his defense is outstanding, but......

The real problem with the Reds is starting pitching ! They have to go out this offseason and get a real #1 and #2 if they hope to contend with this core of position players. Otherwise it's a waste !

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 11:52 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Good to hear Senzel is making progress.

I could see keeping B.H. on a stacked team his defense is outstanding, but......

The real problem with the Reds is starting pitching ! They have to go out this offseason and get a real #1 and #2 if they hope to contend with this core of position players. Otherwise it's a waste !

This X 1000

Reds are top 5 in offense in the NL, but pretty much dead last in pitching.  It doesn't matter how we juggle our 8 position players if we don't get a couple of decent pitchers.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-19-2018, 11:52 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Good to hear Senzel is making progress.

I could see keeping B.H. on a stacked team his defense is outstanding, but......

The real problem with the Reds is starting pitching ! They have to go out this offseason and get a real #1 and #2 if they hope to contend with this core of position players. Otherwise it's a waste !

Yes, that is certainly the elephant in the room. 

But the defense will be ass even with good pitching. Taking a look at the defensive stats, we have three plus defenders (DWAR..defensive wins above replacement): Tucker at 1.2, B-Ham at .7, Votto at .2. Everyone else is at replacement level defense or worse. 

So we'll have (better?) pitching who can keep the ball in the park, but nobody to catch or field it on an above average consistent basis. 

[Hoofhearted]

(09-19-2018, 11:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And that is exactly what they are doing.  Senzel learning to play OF gives them more position flexibility.  Schebler is more likely to play CF than Senzel if they are both on the roster next year.

I can see getting rid of either Hamilton or Gennett to make a spot for Senzel, but we don't have prospects to fill both spots right now.

I was a huge fan of Hamilton, but he just has not progressed.  His defense is amazing but I don't think it makes up for his offensive liability.  Gennett struggles some with defense, but his offense far outweighs his defensive liability.  So I see Hamilton as the one who should go.

Don't understand the hate for Gennett around here.  The guy is not a one-year flash-in-the-pan like Cozart.  He is a legit All Star.  And while I think Senzel looks like a good prospect I have seen other good prospects flop in the majors.

Of all the position for him to learn, why the corners *first*? We have more capable bodies able to fill those spots vs CF. The options for CF are not as plentiful as the corner spots.

Another question I wonder is if LF is the hardest, why did they pretty much put corpses there for three years in a row? I remembered they tried Devin Mesoraco in Left! So did they ignore the hardest OF position? 

And I don't "hate" Gennett... I am not sure where you got that at. I was saying they should of learned their lesson from the Chapman trade, waiting to long to start the rebuild, etc. You have to be able to strike while the iron is hot and deal from a position of strength. They have failed to do that.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-19-2018, 12:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Of all the position for him to learn, why the corners *first*? We have more capable bodies able to fill those spots vs CF. The options for CF are not as plentiful as the corner spots.

Another question I wonder is if LF is the hardest, why did they pretty much put corpses there for three years in a row? I remembered they tried Devin Mesoraco in Left! So did they ignore the hardest OF position? 

And I don't "hate" Gennett... I am not sure where you got that at. I was saying they should of learned their lesson from the Chapman trade, waiting to long to start the rebuild, etc. You have to be able to strike while the iron is hot and deal from a position of strength. They have failed to do that.

Agree 1000% on that

I haven't been following the Reds to closely this last month but from what I gathered before they're basically planning on keeping the infield intact and building a team from it. All around it's a solid core. Granted the defense isn't stellar, especially Gennett but you could live with it if you had some pitching.

The problem is the outfield and the pitching - starting pitching being number 1 with a hundred bullets !

Your power has to come from the corners, when you get away from that model it falls apart quickly. You can get by with a so-so shortstop and center fielder on good teams but when you start having RF and 3rd being non power hitters (just as an example) it starts falling apart.

The Reds have needed more power from right and left field for awhile now.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-19-2018, 12:43 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree 1000% on that

I haven't been following the Reds to closely this last month but from what I gathered before they're basically planning on keeping the infield intact and building a team from it. All around it's a solid core. Granted the defense isn't stellar, especially Gennett but you could live with it if you had some pitching.

The problem is the outfield and the pitching - starting pitching being number 1 with a hundred bullets !

Your power has to come from the corners, when you get away from that model it falls apart quickly. You can get by with a so-so shortstop and center fielder on good teams but when you start having RF and 3rd being non power hitters (just as an example) it starts falling apart.

The Reds have needed more power from right and left field for awhile now.

This is the complete opposite from what I've always been taught/told. You have to have a strong middle of the field if you want to be good. 

Finding good starting pitching is like buying those scratch offs; sometimes you hit big (Castillo), and sometimes you don't. 

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 12:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Of all the position for him to learn, why the corners *first*? We have more capable bodies able to fill those spots vs CF. The options for CF are not as plentiful as the corner spots.

Another question I wonder is if LF is the hardest, why did they pretty much put corpses there for three years in a row? I remembered they tried Devin Mesoraco in Left! So did they ignore the hardest OF position? 

I don't care what they say in that article CF is harder to play than LF.  I have never really heard anyone say anything different.  Schebler will play CF if Hamilton is gone.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-19-2018, 01:07 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is the complete opposite from what I've always been taught/told. You have to have a strong middle of the field if you want to be good. 

Finding good starting pitching is like buying those scratch offs; sometimes you hit big (Castillo), and sometimes you don't. 

I think you may have missed my meaning ?

Power hitters = RF,LF, 1B,3B the corners that's where your RBI, HR, sluggers play.

Your middle infielders and catcher are defense, 2B,SS,CF,C if you get production from them at the plate it's just a bonus.

In a perfect world you get a couple of the defensive spots say a good power hitting catcher and say a good batting average 2B. if you're lucky.

But this is the way Basball teams have been set up for ages. Power od the edges - hitting, defense is secondary. Defense up the middle.

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 01:07 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is the complete opposite from what I've always been taught/told. You have to have a strong middle of the field if you want to be good. 

I think he is talking about hitting, not fielding.

If we have a slugging 2B and CF then we can get by easier with less power (but not less offense) from our corner outfielders.

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 01:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think you may have missed my meaning ?

Power hitters = RF,LF, 1B,3B the corners that's where your RBI, HR, sluggers play.

Your middle infielders and catcher are defense, 2B,SS,CF,C if you get production from them at the plate it's just a bonus.

In a perfect world you get a couple of the defensive spots say a good power hitting catcher and say a good batting average 2B. if you're lucky.

But this is the way Basball teams have been set up for ages. Power od the edges - hitting, defense is secondary. Defense up the middle.

Right, and if you get a slugging 2B and CF (Schebler) you can get by with corner outfielders that are not sluggers (Winker,Senzel)

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-19-2018, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Right, and if you get a slugging 2B and CF (Schebler) you can get by with corner outfielders that are not sluggers (Winker,Senzel)

yes sir

[Goalpost]

Not to derail the thread, but Winker had a real nice year. 405 OBP. His walk to strikeouts were Votto like....49 walks, 46 strikeouts. Not many young players, or experienced ones for the matter, have that type of ratio.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-19-2018, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't care what they say in that article CF is harder to play than LF.  I have never really heard anyone say anything different.  Schebler will play CF if Hamilton is gone.

I agree. So is Ervin the bench guy then? Where does he go? 

[Hoofhearted]

(09-19-2018, 01:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think you may have missed my meaning ?

Power hitters = RF,LF, 1B,3B the corners that's where your RBI, HR, sluggers play.

Your middle infielders and catcher are defense, 2B,SS,CF,C if you get production from them at the plate it's just a bonus.

In a perfect world you get a couple of the defensive spots say a good power hitting catcher and say a good batting average 2B. if you're lucky.

But this is the way Basball teams have been set up for ages. Power od the edges - hitting, defense is secondary. Defense up the middle.

Oh ok, I get what you're saying now. Senzel isn't known for being a power hitter, either. But I think with the modern age of baseball, some of this has adjusted. It's almost all about how often can you get on base, and/or your "eye". Votto has become an all-star using this approach.