D line draft drought finally over?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2018, 01:14 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I think that fans assume that if old tightwad Brown does offer a strong deal that Atkins and Dunlap will automatically accept it. There are ex coaches and teammates on other teams. They also may want to play closer to home or for a proven winner that gives them a much better chance at a ring. Hall of Fame voters don’t look at Bengals players the same as they do with several other teams. I just think that there’s many variables that we have no way of seeing.

Neither of these guys are in free agency.  We are talking about contract extensions.  Players are usually very wary about passing on an extension offer and taking the risk they will be injured in the final year of their contract.

[Circleville Guy]

(08-20-2018, 01:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I never thought for a second you were being a jerk or disrespectful. I think you answered a question though about why has MB not signed Dunlap yet. Maybe because he does want to see what Lawson and Willis bring in 2018 and see if they progress and what a rookie Hubbard can do? There is nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with Carlos seeking the best deal since it will likely be his last huge pay day.

Seeing all of those names written out, we do seem stacked at DE

[Circleville Guy]

(08-20-2018, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither of these guys are in free agency.  We are talking about contract extensions.  Players are usually very wary about passing on an extension offer and taking the risk they will be injured in the final year of their contract.

I’m sorry, I thought that this was the last year of their contracts.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: For years I have been pointing out that after we got Dunlap and Atkins in 2010 we had a bad stretch of drafting D-linemen (many with high picks)

'11....Dontay Moch in 3rd
'12....Devon Still in 2nd, Brandon Thompson in 3rd
'13....Margus Hunt in 3rd
'14....Will Clark in 3rd
'15....Marcus Hardison in 4th


Then we took Billings in the fourth round of the '16 draft.  One of the most overhyped picks ever by some people here, but it looks like he will develop into a solid player.

In '17 we took Jordan Willis in the 3rd and Carl Lawson in the 4th.  Lawson was an instant impact player.  Willis got a good bit of playing time, but only one sack.  But this year it looks like he has taken that next step that we waited for Still, Hunt, and Clark to make after their rookie seasons.  We also took Glasgow in the fourth and he played a lot of snaps, but that could have just been because we were so thin at DT.

This year we took Hubbard in the 3rd and he is looking good so far.


When you depend on the draft to build your team as much as the Bengals do you just can't miss on as many D-line picks as we did from '11 through '15.  Hopefully we have gotten over that problem. 

Agreed, that was a rough stretch alright. Hope it is over and these guys end up being studs like Geno and Dunlap.

Sure has been the bright spot of the team so far this Preseason. I really hyped Billings as you know, the injury really
slowed him down but he is still very young and is just starting to get that nasty, mean, attitude that i loved at Baylor.

Not saying Billings will ever be Geno, maybe no one will, but he could be that great run stoppin' sumbitch that could
get 5-7 sacks a year. Willis i hyped big time anywhere from the 2nd on, was a 3 down DE at Kansas State and actually
had him rated above Derek Barnett cause of this and even above Carl Lawson. Willis didn't play up to my expectations
as a rookie but it sometimes takes a year and i hear he looks like a monster now.

Lawson just has great balance and gets so low, he very well could do what he predicted and be our all-time sack
leader, that is how good of a pass rusher he is. He just needs to stay healthy which was his knock besides not being
the best at stopping the run or in coverage. But what the heck, use him as a pass rusher then, he will get his.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2018, 07:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agreed, that was a rough stretch alright. Hope it is over and these guys end up being studs like Geno and Dunlap.

Sure has been the bright spot of the team so far this Preseason. I really hyped Billings as you know, the injury really
slowed him down but he is still very young and is just starting to get that nasty, mean, attitude that i loved at Baylor.

Not saying Billings will ever be Geno, maybe no one will, but he could be that great run stoppin' sumbitch that could
get 5-7 sacks a year. Willis i hyped big time anywhere from the 2nd on, was a 3 down DE at Kansas State and actually
had him rated above Derek Barnett cause of this and even above Carl Lawson. Willis didn't play up to my expectations
as a rookie but it sometimes takes a year and i hear he looks like a monster now.

Lawson just has great balance and gets so low, he very well could do what he predicted and be our all-time sack
leader, that is how good of a pass rusher he is. He just needs to stay healthy which was his knock besides not being
the best at stopping the run or in coverage. But what the heck, use him as a pass rusher then, he will get his.

This year will be interesting to see play out, for a multitude of reasons.  However, in regard to the DL specifically, I see Geno Atkins getting the "you're going to retire as a Bengal" contract, and the team playing "Let's see how Willis pans out", before offering an equivalent deal to Carlos.  It will be a heartbreaker, for sure, to have to watch Carlos go to another team and cash in, similar to having to watch Andrew Whitworth go to another team.  However, if the new talent is the future, they're never going to reach their potential by sitting on the bench.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2018, 08:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This year will be interesting to see play out, for a multitude of reasons.  However, in regard to the DL specifically, I see Geno Atkins getting the "you're going to retire as a Bengal" contract, and the team playing "Let's see how Willis pans out", before offering an equivalent deal to Carlos.  It will be a heartbreaker, for sure, to have to watch Carlos go to another team and cash in, similar to having to watch Andrew Whitworth go to another team.  However, if the new talent is the future, they're never going to reach their potential by sitting on the bench.

Sure would break my heart to lose Carlos, love that guy.

But between him and Geno you have to pick Geno if you can only have one.

Especially if guys like Willis, Lawson and Hubbard are ripping QB's heads off not literally of course unless it is the Pig.

[jorev5]

(08-20-2018, 09:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure would break my heart to lose Carlos, love that guy.

But between him and Geno you have to pick Geno if you can only have one.

Especially if guys like Willis, Lawson and Hubbard are ripping QB's heads off not literally of course unless it is the Pig.

I was going to ask the exact same question.  Geno or Carlos? and I agree Geno over Carlos

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2018, 09:33 PM)jorev5 Wrote: I was going to ask the exact same question.  Geno or Carlos? and I agree Geno over Carlos

For us even to ask this question is the greatest compliment Carlos Dunlap has ever been given...

That is how good Geno is.

Dunlap is a great End and one of the most if not the most disruptive in the game but Geno is one of a kind.

People can talk about Aaron Donald all they want but who do they think was Donald's favorite player?

Geno Atkins and Geno is still better than Aaron Donald IMHO.

Should be a shoe in HOF'er. He just needs a ring, hope this is the year, to reward him and AJ Green.

[Sled21]

We are NOT going to get rid of Geno or Carlos..... just not going to happen.

[Hoofhearted]

(08-21-2018, 08:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: We are NOT going to get rid of Geno or Carlos..... just not going to happen.

They have Willis and Hubbard on the roster, so never say never. But I think they both try to get done, but a matter of if he's able to take a fair market  value deal like someone else stated here. They also gotta figure out if they want to keep Eifert, which would drastically change the way they approach these.

[Sled21]

(08-21-2018, 08:40 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: They have Willis and Hubbard on the roster, so never say never. But I think they both try to get done, but a matter of if he's able to take a fair market  value deal like someone else stated here. They also gotta figure out if they want to keep Eifert, which would drastically change the way they approach these.

Yes, they have Willis and Hubbard on the roster, so now they have what they want, a great dline rotation....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-21-2018, 08:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: We are NOT going to get rid of Geno or Carlos..... just not going to happen.

(08-21-2018, 10:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yes, they have Willis and Hubbard on the roster, so now they have what they want, a great dline rotation....

Hope you are correct Sled.

[sandwedge]

(08-20-2018, 08:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This year will be interesting to see play out, for a multitude of reasons.  However, in regard to the DL specifically, I see Geno Atkins getting the "you're going to retire as a Bengal" contract, and the team playing "Let's see how Willis pans out", before offering an equivalent deal to Carlos.  It will be a heartbreaker, for sure, to have to watch Carlos go to another team and cash in, similar to having to watch Andrew Whitworth go to another team.  However, if the new talent is the future, they're never going to reach their potential by sitting on the bench.

I was going to make that same statement in my earlier response to this thread. I can see them extending Geno and waiting on Carlos to see what the new talent does this year.

[*SHRacerX*]

I believe that a huge part of the recent success in the drafting of Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson has been that they FINALLY threw away the Dunlap/MJ mold and stopped trying to get every DE to be a clone of those guys. We have consistently turned out nose up to the Noah Spence-types for guys like Clarke and Hunt.

It just so happens the two best edge rushers in the NFL (Khalil Mack and Von Miller) are not super tall, 290 lb guys. We have needed guys that can burn speed around the edge on the right side for a seemingly very long time.

Willis and Hubbard are versatile (and strong enough) to rotate inside and play on the right or left side, without sacrificing run defense. But Lawson, is an absolute terror of the edge. That is what they have been lacking for so long and I can't wait to see some of the rotations this year get after opposing QBs.

Unrelated to the D-line discussion, I really liked what I have seen with a couple corner blitzes. I want more blitzes and it would seem they are testing out several different schemes. I hated watching the front four play patty-cake for five seconds only to see Piggy check it down to a RB or TE for an easy 10 yards. I am really hoping that Austin, the new talent on the defensive line, and faster LBs (Vigil and Evans as the nickel backers) helps to eliminate that situation.

[Sled21]

(08-22-2018, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:   I am really hoping that Austin, the new talent on the defensive line, and faster LBs (Vigil and Evans as the nickel backers) helps to eliminate that situation.

Have they both, especially Evans, not just looked like they are all over every play this pre-season? I'm really impressed with how far Evans has come...

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-22-2018, 07:57 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Have they both, especially Evans, not just looked like they are all over every play this pre-season? I'm really impressed with how far Evans has come...

Agreed.  Vigil, too.  That is their strength.  Their weakness is not having enough sand in their pants when an offensive linemen gets to the second level.  Better talent up front helps to prevent that as well.

Depth is still paper-thin, though.  Jefferson looks lost.  I think Fej and Shawn will be used more as hybrid LBs.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2018, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I believe that a huge part of the recent success in the drafting of Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson has been that they FINALLY threw away the Dunlap/MJ mold and stopped trying to get every DE to be a clone of those guys.  We have consistently turned out nose up to the Noah Spence-types for guys like Clarke and Hunt.  

It just so happens the two best edge rushers in the NFL (Khalil Mack and Von Miller) are not super tall, 290 lb guys.  We have needed guys that can burn speed around the edge on the right side for a seemingly very long time.  

Willis and Hubbard are versatile (and strong enough) to rotate inside and play on the right or left side, without sacrificing run defense.  But Lawson, is an absolute terror of the edge.  That is what they have been lacking for so long and I can't wait to see some of the rotations this year get after opposing QBs.

Unrelated to the D-line discussion, I really liked what I have seen with a couple corner blitzes.  I want more blitzes and it would seem they are testing out several different schemes.  I hated watching the front four play patty-cake for five seconds only to see Piggy check it down to a RB or TE for an easy 10 yards.  I am really hoping that Austin, the new talent on the defensive line, and faster LBs (Vigil and Evans as the nickel backers) helps to eliminate that situation.

Great post Racer, should be a fun season watching this rotation.

Have to give Paulie G a little cred in changing this thought process and finally drafting shorter, lighter, quicker Ends.

He was the one who said it doesn't matter how big they are if they cannot do the job and he was correct.

Liking what Austin has been doing here and hey, even my Haslett hate has died down a bit with the emergence of
Evans and Vigil.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-22-2018, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I believe that a huge part of the recent success in the drafting of Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson has been that they FINALLY threw away the Dunlap/MJ mold and stopped trying to get every DE to be a clone of those guys.  We have consistently turned out nose up to the Noah Spence-types for guys like Clarke and Hunt.  

It just so happens the two best edge rushers in the NFL (Khalil Mack and Von Miller) are not super tall, 290 lb guys.  We have needed guys that can burn speed around the edge on the right side for a seemingly very long time.  

Willis and Hubbard are versatile (and strong enough) to rotate inside and play on the right or left side, without sacrificing run defense.  But Lawson, is an absolute terror of the edge.  That is what they have been lacking for so long and I can't wait to see some of the rotations this year get after opposing QBs.

Unrelated to the D-line discussion, I really liked what I have seen with a couple corner blitzes.  I want more blitzes and it would seem they are testing out several different schemes.  I hated watching the front four play patty-cake for five seconds only to see Piggy check it down to a RB or TE for an easy 10 yards.  I am really hoping that Austin, the new talent on the defensive line, and faster LBs (Vigil and Evans as the nickel backers) helps to eliminate that situation.

Yes, great post. They need to do the same type of draft thinking for the OL and LB spots where we draft poorly. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-23-2018, 10:11 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Yes, great post. They need to do the same type of draft thinking for the OL and LB spots where we draft poorly. 

You mean like taking Malik Jefferson, the athlete, over Shaq Griffin, that tackling machine?

[XenoMorph]

(08-20-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: For years I have been pointing out that after we got Dunlap and Atkins in 2010 we had a bad stretch of drafting D-linemen (many with high picks)

'11....Dontay Moch in 3rd
'12....Devon Still in 2nd, Brandon Thompson in 3rd
'13....Margus Hunt in 3rd
'14....Will Clark in 3rd
'15....Marcus Hardison in 4th


Then we took Billings in the fourth round of the '16 draft.  One of the most overhyped picks ever by some people here, but it looks like he will develop into a solid player.

In '17 we took Jordan Willis in the 3rd and Carl Lawson in the 4th.  Lawson was an instant impact player.  Willis got a good bit of playing time, but only one sack.  But this year it looks like he has taken that next step that we waited for Still, Hunt, and Clark to make after their rookie seasons.  We also took Glasgow in the fourth and he played a lot of snaps, but that could have just been because we were so thin at DT.

This year we took Hubbard in the 3rd and he is looking good so far.


When you depend on the draft to build your team as much as the Bengals do you just can't miss on as many D-line picks as we did from '11 through '15.  Hopefully we have gotten over that problem. 

draft is a crap shoot they all did it in college but not everyone makes the transistion to the pros.