2019 Draft: Linebackers, Offensive OT/Guard & DB

[SunsetBengal]

(11-14-2018, 01:55 PM)Synric Wrote: You're focusing on one player and missing the point of my orginal post.

Most of the linebackers coming out are undersized made for college football and not the NFL. There aren't many that look like Jordan Evans or Malik Jefferson.

I don't believe that linebacker talent coming out this year is as good as last years. While I think they need a Linebacker this year's draft might not be the solution. 

2017 NFL All-Pro LBs

Chandler Jones 6'5" 235
Bobby Wagner 6'0" 245
Luke Kuechly 6'3" 238
Von Miller 6'3" 250
C J Mosely 6'2" 250
Telvin Smith 6'3" 215

As everyone can see, height and weight can be all over the map for star LBs.  

*I roll with the All-Pro team as the true NFL All-Star team, Pro-Bowl is just a popularity contest..

[*Synric*]

(11-14-2018, 02:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: 2017 NFL All-Pro LBs

Chandler Jones 6'5" 235
Bobby Wagner 6'0" 245
Luke Kuechly 6'3" 238
Von Miller 6'3" 250
C J Mosely 6'2" 250
Telvin Smith 6'3" 215

As everyone can see, height and weight can be all over the map for star LBs.  

*I roll with the All-Pro team as the true NFL All-Star team, Pro-Bowl is just a popularity contest..

But length...length is what most on the list outside of Wagner have....

There are sterotypes for a reason.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-14-2018, 01:55 PM)Synric Wrote: You're focusing on one player and missing the point of my orginal post.

Most of the linebackers coming out are undersized made for college football and not the NFL. There aren't many that look like Jordan Evans or Malik Jefferson.

I don't believe that linebacker talent coming out this year is as good as last years. While I think they need a Linebacker this year's draft might not be the solution. 

When looking at the LBs as a whole, I can understand that. I just found it weird you picked Mack Wilson when everything I've seen kinda shows his as the new "ideal" size for LB in the NFL. That's why I focused on him.

EDIT - Related note...while Jordan Evans and Malik Jefferson may have great size/length, it doesn't seem to fully matter. Although I'll reserve judgement for Jefferson until we can actually see him play. I'm worried though that he's even worse than the guys the Bengals have been sending out because he's not getting any defensive reps while the LB play has been terrible. As Sunset pointed out, good LBs can come in all different shapes and sizes.

[*psychdoctor*]

I'm starting to think they should move Williams to linebacker and draft another safety and also draft another linebacker. Maybe Williams we play better at linebacker especially at covering tight ends.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-14-2018, 04:58 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I'm starting to think they should move Williamson to linebacker and draft another safety and also draft another linebacker.  Maybe Williamson we play better at linebacker especially at covering tight ends.

Who's Williamson?  Are you thinking of Shawn Williams, the Safety?

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-14-2018, 05:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Who's Williamson?  Are you thinking of Shawn Williams, the Safety?

Yeah sorry I'm using the speaker phone. I think I was able to make the correction.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-14-2018, 04:58 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I'm starting to think they should move Williams to linebacker and draft another safety and also draft another linebacker.  Maybe Williams we play better at linebacker especially at covering tight ends.

Too bad the Bengals didn't keep Iloka. He's 6'4", 225 lbs and likes to hit. Could have made sense as a cover LB.

[SunsetBengal]

One to watch, for 2020 draft. OT Steven Hayes Ohio Univ. Jr. He is playing LT in a run based offense, but what a drive blocker! Coming from the MAC, he's not facing many elite pass rushers, but his run blocking is phenomenal. He definitely translates to RT in the NFL.

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-14-2018, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Too bad the Bengals didn't keep Iloka. He's 6'4", 225 lbs and likes to hit. Could have made sense as a cover LB.

I still don't understand why they got rid of George.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-14-2018, 10:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I still don't understand why they got rid of George.

I think getting rid of George was a salary dump, motivated by the recent NFL rule changes.  Too many times, big George would go for the knockout hit, rather than playing the ball or setting up for a tackle.  I hate it, as I really liked him.  But, when it was just he and Shawn Williams back there, they struggled, unlike the days when Reggie Nelson was patrolling the back 1/3.

[Bengal Dude]

(11-14-2018, 10:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I still don't understand why they got rid of George.

Money was the big factor, but there was some frustration over the lack of turnovers from him.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2018, 01:54 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Money was the big factor, but there was some frustration over the lack of turnovers from him.

He really didn't make THAT much money. He was only $8 mill cap hit 2018 and $6.6 mill cap hit in 2019 and 2020 each. Could he have been better if he converted to LB? I think he might (at least if he had a good LB coach). At 6'4" and already 225 lbs, he probably could have bulked up 5-10 lbs and still been effective in coverage from the LB position.

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-15-2018, 11:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He really didn't make THAT much money. He was only $8 mill cap hit 2018 and $6.6 mill cap hit in 2019 and 2020 each. Could he have been better if he converted to LB? I think he might (at least if he had a good LB coach). At 6'4" and already 225 lbs, he probably could have bulked up 5-10 lbs and still been effective in coverage from the LB position.

I think George would have made it pretty good linebacker in theory at least.  I still think they should move Shawn Williams to linebacker.

[*Synric*]

(11-15-2018, 11:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He really didn't make THAT much money. He was only $8 mill cap hit 2018 and $6.6 mill cap hit in 2019 and 2020 each. Could he have been better if he converted to LB? I think he might (at least if he had a good LB coach). At 6'4" and already 225 lbs, he probably could have bulked up 5-10 lbs and still been effective in coverage from the LB position.

Iloka actually played better near the line too, but it was a salary dump trying to free up cash for Geno and Dunlap.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2018, 01:08 PM)Synric Wrote: Iloka actually played better near the line too, but it was a salary dump trying to free up cash for Geno and Dunlap.

Bengals still have over $9 mill cap space this year and plenty for 2019 and 2020, so they could have still kept Iloka. They didn't "need" to free up more for Geno and Dunlap.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-15-2018, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals still have over $9 mill cap space this year and plenty for 2019 and 2020, so they could have still kept Iloka. They didn't "need" to free up more for Geno and Dunlap.

Here's who's currently scheduled to become a free agent after this season.

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/cincinnati-bengals/

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2018, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's who's currently scheduled to become a free agent after this season.

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/cincinnati-bengals/

I know.

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-15-2018, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's who's currently scheduled to become a free agent after this season.

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/cincinnati-bengals/

I would sign Eifert to a one year contract so that all of his rehab pays off for his desire to give the fans at least one good year of healthy football.
I would sign Dennard, Hopkins, Uzi.  That's it.  

They need to draft:
OT
RG
2 Linebackers
1-2 safeties
TE
DT

I am starting to think TE may come early in the draft, which could have been avoided if the team grabbed OJ Howard instead of Ross.  Franks looked good with limited snaps and i think they may keep Carter at FB/TE.  

[SunsetBengal]

(11-15-2018, 07:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I would sign Eifert to a one year contract so that all of his rehab pays off for his desire to give the fans at least one good year of healthy football.
I would sign Dennard, Hopkins, Uzi.  That's it.  

They need to draft:
OT
RG
2 Linebackers
1-2 safeties
TE
DT

I am starting to think TE may come early in the draft, which could have been avoided if the team grabbed OJ Howard instead of Ross.  Franks looked good with limited snaps and i think they may keep Carter at FB/TE.  

One thing that is for certain, they're not going to find plug and play guys at all of those spots, in one draft class.  It's going to take resigning a few guys that we would rather do without, along with some smart deals made via free agency.

Now, you must consider the cost of filling that spot with a competent veteran, versus going way up in the draft for the same position.  To my way of thinking, good TEs and OTs are hard to attain for a reasonable price in free agency, so I would put those at the top of my draft needs list.
   
A starting guard can be found in the top 4 rounds, even by drafting a Tackle and placing him at Guard.  Linebacker is where it gets tricky, from what I've noticed in recent years, typically only the top two or three LBs in a draft class make a significant splash their rookie season.  That position might be best filled by free agency or trade.  DT is a need, but might not be as much of a need come next offseason.  If Glassgow makes a full recovery, we know he is good depth.  Billings seems to be holding down the fort at NT, and honestly I haven't paid a lick of attention to Tupau to know how he has looked.  However, just like LB, the drop off from the top few in the class to the mid-round guys is huge at that position.  In order to attain a day one starter at DT, we might have to forego that top OT or TE that we so desperately need. As far as the Safety position, I don't see them having a "tremendous need", right now. Bates looks like a future star, Williams is not great, but he's experienced and don't cost a ton. If a good one falls, or the market is flushed with them in FA, then sure, upgrade the position.

[Goalpost]

As I watch this year play out, I keep thinking the back seven has increased in importance. I wonder if we need to truly catch up with more athletic lb's, and maybe try to get ahead of the curve with the back seven in general. You know Andy is a 63 percent passer this year, which seems ok. But such is the state of the NFL. That only puts Andy 25th.