Will this be the year?

[dr1441]

(08-28-2015, 09:55 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: I think the biggest reason its preceived he doesnt go thru his progression is he only has the ball in his hands for about 2 to 2.5 seconds most plays.

Sanu went off in those games when AJ was hurt cause he really was the only target on the field that was reliable.

The average time in the NFL is under 3 seconds so maybe Dalton is a little quick on the trigger but its nothing too incredibly crazy. And we can just agree to disagree that is the reason why Sanu went off. While I will agree we were very thin, watch one of those games, he didn't even look any other direction. Much like he does with Aj. It doesn't matter if AJ is in triple coverage, if he is the first option 9/10 times he is still getting the ball. Hasn't changed since day 1.  

[jj22]

(08-28-2015, 10:37 AM)dr1441 Wrote: I don't understand what fallacy you are speaking of. This was his knock coming out of college, this has been his knock since he has been here and it will continue to be his knock until he learns how to look off of coverage and stop focusing on his primary receiver, which most of the time is AJ.

Now if you choose to not look at facts and live in la la land, well I can't be the one to convince you of anything different, but I will choose to look at what he actually does and not what I want him to do like others.

You can't ignore he got 6 receivers over 400+ yards just two years ago. You can't do that if your unable to go through your progressions. Look at some of the other young darlings in the league who haven't accomplished that. It does look as though he predetermines his throws pre snap, that's a legit criticism, but he's proved to be able to go through progressions. At least in Gruden's system.

The Air Coryell system Hue runs requires strong pass protection. I know people think we try to blame the oline, but we have a run blocking line (Dalton does get the ball out quick on short drops which helps the line), not a pass blocking line. It's why Mike Martz qb's use to get killed behind leaky lines. In order for Hues passing game to be effective Dalton needs the time to work with 7 step drops and two hitches. That's tough to do with our Oline.

I don't get why hue can't adapt his system to keep his run game, but use the west coast wide receiver route tree that Dalton was more effective in from 2011-2013.

[XenoMorph]

(08-28-2015, 10:41 AM)jj22 Wrote: You can't ignore he got 6 receivers over 400+ yards just two years ago. You can't do that if your unable to go through your progressions. Look at some of the other young darlings in the league who haven't accomplished that. It does look as though he predetermines his throws pre snap, that's a legit criticism, but he's proved to be able to go through progressions. At least in Gruden's system.

The Air Coryell system Hue runs requires strong pass protection. I know people think we try to blame the oline, but we have a run blocking line (Dalton does get the ball out quick on short drops which helps the line), not a pass blocking line. It's why Mike Martz qb's use to get killed behind leaky lines. In order for Hues passing game to be effective Dalton needs the time to work with 7 step drops and two hitches. That's tough to do with our Oline.

I don't get why hue can't adapt his system to keep his run game, but use the west coast wide receiver route tree that Dalton was more effective in from 2011-2013.

one thing i remember someone(an announcer) complaining about last year was that it seemed to them that in hues system all the WRs seem to break open at the same time giving dalton 1 chance to pick a target and throw instead of WR1 Breaking open then WR2 then TE then RB etc given more windows in case option 1 wasnt good..... or something along those lines.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

AJ Green 1,400 rec yds 12 TD's
Marvin Jones 1,000 rec yds 10 TD's

Jeremy Hill 1,500 yds, 12 TD's 300 rec yds
Giovanni Bernard 700 yds 6 TD's 600 rec yds

Andy Dalton 4,800 pass yds 36 TD's


Super Bowl

[XenoMorph]

(08-28-2015, 01:37 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: AJ Green 1,400 rec yds 12 TD's
Marvin Jones 1,000 rec yds 10 TD's

Jeremy Hill 1,500 yds, 12 TD's 300 rec yds
Giovanni Bernard 700 yds 6 TD's 600 rec yds

Andy Dalton 4,800 pass yds 36 TD's


Super Bowl

those include post season numbers?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2015, 03:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: We have a 2, 1000 yard receivers and a 1000 yard RB?

I was chastised for wanting it after 2013. Just curious if folks still think it's impossible or unlikely.

Green and Hill should eclipse 1000 yards if they stay healthy.

I think there will be too much spreading the ball around between MLJ and Eifert for one of them to get there.

Hopefully lots of TD's from them though.

[djs7685]

(08-27-2015, 03:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: I was chastised for wanting it after 2013. Just curious if folks still think it's impossible or unlikely.

I skimmed over this and missed it the first time though. I just wanted to point out that you absolutely weren't chastised for WANTING it after 2013.

You were chastised because on the old board, you made a comment to the tune of "our weapons aren't even good, we don't even have two 1,000 yard receivers and a 1,000 yard running back", as if that was the sole qualification of having a good group of players on offense. THAT is what got people to take shots at you, not that you wanted us to have those statistics.

[type_stripe]

We have a WR who can eclipse 1000 yds, another WR with the talent to be a receiver who gets 1000 (not that he will, but he has proven he is a major asset), a RB who can eclipse 1000 yds and another RB who can hit 1000 overall yards. All with a pretty good game manager at QB. Throw in the variables of 1)If the O-line can keep up the blocks and 2) the D-line finally becomes a pass rush threat again, this could be the season.

[Interceptor]

(08-28-2015, 01:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: those include post season numbers?

Madden

[M.W.]

I don't think so. Outside of AJ Green, who will get a lot of throws, the Bengals have Eifert and Jones who will probably about split attempts and Hill who will get a lot of carries.

[McC]

(08-28-2015, 10:41 AM)jj22 Wrote: You can't ignore he got 6 receivers over 400+ yards just two years ago. You can't do that if your unable to go through your progressions. Look at some of the other young darlings in the league who haven't accomplished that. It does look as though he predetermines his throws pre snap, that's a legit criticism, but he's proved to be able to go through progressions. At least in Gruden's system.

The Air Coryell system Hue runs requires strong pass protection. I know people think we try to blame the oline, but we have a run blocking line (Dalton does get the ball out quick on short drops which helps the line), not a pass blocking line. It's why Mike Martz qb's use to get killed behind leaky lines. In order for Hues passing game to be effective Dalton needs the time to work with 7 step drops and two hitches. That's tough to do with our Oline.

I don't get why hue can't adapt his system to keep his run game, but use the west coast wide receiver route tree that Dalton was more effective in from 2011-2013.

I read some [re-draft scouting reports the other day on Andy.  One thing they all had in common is that he would thrive or at least be at his best in a WCO.  So, a bunch of people agree with you.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

No.

Barring injury, Green and Hill will both surpass those marks. I don't know that I have the confidence that Sanu, Jones, or Eifert will also get to 1000 receiving though.

[J24]

You need an elite QB for that happen; so I would say no.

[thegimp]

(08-28-2015, 01:37 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: AJ Green 1,400 rec yds 12 TD's
Marvin Jones 1,000 rec yds 10 TD's

Jeremy Hill 1,500 yds, 12 TD's 300 rec yds
Giovanni Bernard 700 yds 6 TD's 600 rec yds

Andy Dalton 4,800 pass yds 36 TD's


Super Bowl  

yes please!

[Daddy-O]

(08-28-2015, 08:36 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Can we please stop propagating this fallacy? Dalton does just fine with going through his progressions, for the most part. The reason why it seems he doesn't go through progressions is, IMO, two-fold: 1) Dalton's pre-read decision-making and 2) his ability to move in the pocket/facing pressure

1) Dalton is really good at reading defenses pre-snap. He knows the play, looks what the defense is giving him, either adjusts the play to something better and/or decides who he is going to throw the ball to. Because most passes Dalton throws tend to be short to medium, he usually decides pre-snap who to throw to and throws it to them. If they are covered, yes, sometimes he tris to force it, but other imes, he looks elsewhere (you know that progression thing).

2) THIS is, IMO, Dalton's biggest flaw. When pressure comes or when Dalton THINKS pressure his coming, he leaves the pocket. If Dalton would learn to just move around in the pocket (step up, step to the side, etc.), not only would his negative stats decrease, but his positive stats would be even better.

I don't see #2 changing this year, to be honest, but I think #1 he does better and with healthy receivers this year, I fully expect Dalton to have his best year ever at QB.

When pressure comes?  Rarely does pressure not come, usually straight up the middle.  If the Bengals would fix this problem they'd be onto something.  This OL gets a free pass and it's mostly due to Dalton's quick release, which is like #2 in the league.

[Derrick]

(08-27-2015, 06:02 PM)McC Wrote: This.  And plenty to Eifert too.   MLJ might easily be the third guy he looks at.

...except that the OC says he wants to "run the ball" more.

[McC]

(08-29-2015, 02:40 PM)Derrick Wrote: ...except that the OC says he wants to "run the ball" more.

And that too, all reasons why there won't be 2 1000 yd receivers.