Chris Carter Over Margus Hunt

[BURROWorBUST]

I can see them keeping both. They just need to be able to make room for Burfict and Ced to come off PUP. Hate to say it, but injuries happen. That's the great thing about having so much depth. Maybe an LB or a DT goes down between now and Week 6, for example.

I just want to see what we do at WR. Alford hasn't done much, but I don't think Hue is showing all the looks we'll use when we use him. He's has some drops, but he's shown what he can do. We just need to get him out in open field. We haven't really done that too much yet. Not in the passing game.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-30-2015, 11:28 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Because you simply don't understand the game, and your bias of Hunt is making it difficult for you to understand better.

There is context to these stats, in what manner did they transpire, against whom were they accumulated.

He was ineffective the entire time he was in there and the only time he showed up on the stat sheet was the usual "I can only go through you because I'm stronger than your backup ass!" He displayed zero technique that would help him against a competent player, and more importantly looks the same as he has the last 2 years

He's always been a preseason guy because he's in there's situations and people like you think it's him progressing as a player when it's the same old story that will inevitably translate to the same ineffectiveness when it counts.

People are excited about Carter because he's getting his numbers productively, he's bending around the  edge, he's fighting off blocks, he's actually using football awareness, which is a foreign concept to Hunt.

The only thing to be excited about Hunt is that he may just finally block a field goal this year, expecting anything more is fanatical.

OK, here goes the "you don't understand football" insults. What bias are you speaking of?  For me to have a bias towards Hunt, I would have to say I prefer him over someone else, right?  This entire thread is called "Chris Carter over Margus Hunt", but I said at least twice that I want Carter to make the team as well.  Good reading, or at least vocabulary comprehension.  Again, I AM FOR CARTER.  I just believe Margus can also help the team rotating at LDE with Dunlap....a completely different position than Carter.  Your own stat sheet showed that Carter had ZERO rushes from the left side. 

Hunt did not simply "bull rush" his guy on every snap, as you proclaim.  He was setting the edge and generating closing the pocket on that side on almost every snap.  The rest of the defensive line wasn't doing much of anything on a lot of the snaps when Hunt was in there. 

We can agree to disagree about what we are seeing in Hunt.  I believe that he is needed to rotate in with Dunlap at LDE and can be utilized in that role very well.   

[xavierdude]

(08-30-2015, 01:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I disagree about Hunt.  I thought he has looked very good in the last two games.  That doesn't mean I don't want Carter.  He is a unique talent that the Bengals don't have elsewhere on the roster.  Hunt can rotate with Dunlap at LDE and can also move inside.  They are different players. 

If looking at Hunt not making it, who do you have rotate at LDE?  Clarke?  He hasn't shown anything yet.  I know there is a log jam at DT, but I don't see as many players competing with Hunt. 

hunt is a marginal backup at the very most

"looked very good the last two games?"   too funny..he looked slow and ponderous..as he always does

[CJD]

I think they have more than enough room to keep both.

[*Synric*]

Carter is not a defensive end. If a team catches Cincy with him in at end they will run right at him 3rd and long can become 1st & 10 quickly. Wallace Gillberry is not a 4-3 defensive end he is a solid INSIDE rusher that's all.  Hunt is needed to take snaps from Dunlap.

PS keep in mind Hunt had 3 days of practice this off-season before that first game.

The surprise is how well Hardison has looked at both tackle spots... He could very well take Pekos job by mid season.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-30-2015, 01:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's also older than most players on the defense. 

He's shown little to no improvement. He can still only win when he can out muscle guys regardless of technique, which is to say he relies solely on the OT failing in technique to allow him the rush. 

If we keep Hunt over Carter it will show a level of stubbornness on the part of the FO that is a bigger reason we are winless in the playoffs than any one player. 

We have such rigid archetypes for DEs now and it's killing our pass rush. Carter isn't that good, he's alright. But he does bring something only Dunlap can bring...speed and bend off the edge. 

My thoughts are the same. Practically every Bengals pass rusher hass been the same type - power.

It could (would) be beneficial to find at least one speed rusher.

Plus, as you said, Hunt is much older than a typical third-year player and just hasn't developed fast enough. The Bengals really struggle with developing defensive projects.

If the Bengals want to finally get above the plateau they've been on the past few years, they need to start expanding their thinking on what players to keep and how to use them.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-30-2015, 01:31 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Hunt and Gilberry could also fill in at DT in an emergency or in different situations.

Hardison, Thompson, and DeShawn Williams can also play DT. With Hardison having the ability to play across the DL, it might make sense to keep....

DE: MJ90, Dunlap, Gilberry, Clarke
DT: Atkins, Peko, Thompson, Hardison, Sims/Williams

And have Carter as the 6th LB (or 7th if Bengals go lighter at DB) to add a speed rush element.

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2015, 12:21 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Looks like we posted at almost the same time: http://bengalsboard.net/Thread-Defensive-Line

"If it was my choice, I'd go for 9 (+ Chris Carter in the LBs):

Dunlap, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Gilberry, Hardison, Sims, Clarke, Thompson"

Its hard cause i could see hunt making in. We might have to trade someone away.

then theres that Willams kid.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I want both of them to make the roster myself. Sucks if we have to cut one of these two.

Carter is a Linebacker BTW and Hunt is an End. Marquis Flowers is definately in this discussion and DeShaun Williams.

[Luvnit2]

(08-31-2015, 10:49 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Its hard cause i could see hunt making in.   We might have to trade someone away.

then theres that Willams kid.

The Williams kid is a player we need to figure out how to stash away. I just wish we could have seen him more against 1st team offenses

[XenoMorph]

(08-31-2015, 01:58 AM)Shady Wrote: I can see them keeping both. They just need to be able to make room for Burfict and Ced to come off PUP. Hate to say it, but injuries happen. That's the great thing about having so much depth. Maybe an LB or a DT goes down between now and Week 6, for example.

I just want to see what we do at WR. Alford hasn't done much, but I don't think Hue is showing all the looks we'll use when we use him. He's has some drops, but he's shown what he can do. We just need to get him out in open field. We haven't really done that too much yet. Not in the passing game.

Alford might be replacing McCaleb on the PS just not enough spots.

[Stormborn]

(08-31-2015, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: OK, here goes the "you don't understand football" insults. What bias are you speaking of?  For me to have a bias towards Hunt, I would have to say I prefer him over someone else, right?  This entire thread is called "Chris Carter over Margus Hunt", but I said at least twice that I want Carter to make the team as well.  Good reading, or at least vocabulary comprehension.  Again, I AM FOR CARTER.  I just believe Margus can also help the team rotating at LDE with Dunlap....a completely different position than Carter.  Your own stat sheet showed that Carter had ZERO rushes from the left side. 

Hunt did not simply "bull rush" his guy on every snap, as you proclaim.  He was setting the edge and generating closing the pocket on that side on almost every snap.  The rest of the defensive line wasn't doing much of anything on a lot of the snaps when Hunt was in there. 

We can agree to disagree about what we are seeing in Hunt.  I believe that he is needed to rotate in with Dunlap at LDE and can be utilized in that role very well.   

Never once said you didn't like Carter, that was never a point. 

You have a bias towards Hunt, at least you're portraying one, when you're saying he did things that he didn't. He didn't consistently set an edge, most of the time he was drawn away from his gap. When the game comes back on I want to re-evaluate him as well but I know I'll see for the 2nd time.

Hunt will stay on the team probably because we're not using Clarke at LE and we don't have a backup there, the Bengals fault there. If/when he stays and potentially pushes the number of Dlineman to 10, more than likely there's only room for 6 linebackers, potentially leaving Carter on the outside looking in. 

Hunt and Carter will be potential determinants of who we carry an extra at and possibly only 1 will make it. If you want your best players on the 53, Carter deserves a spot more, if you wanna play draft status and keep worse players just because he takes snaps at LE, Hunt will make it.

This team right now is more fit to carry 5 DTs and 4 DEs contrary to 4 and 5. 5 and 5 is possible but again, Carter may not make it if that's the case.

[Okeana]

I think Chris makes the team if he has another good showing this week. Hunt may be put on the practice squad, but its likely this is the last we will see of him in stripes.

One thing that really caught my eye this week is that Carter plays like a Steeler LB and is great on blitzing. I think we keep him specifically for these reasons and the fact that williams/hardison are showing better as rookies than hunt does after all these years.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-31-2015, 01:47 PM)Stormborn Wrote: You have a bias towards Hunt, at least you're portraying one, when you're saying he did things that he didn't. He didn't consistently set an edge, most of the time he was drawn away from his gap. When the game comes back on I want to re-evaluate him as well but I know I'll see for the 2nd time.

Watching the game on TV is not the same as watching it live.  I'm saying he did things he didn't, according to you, but then you spend the rest of the thread explaining why he will make the team...that's rich.  As I have been saying all along:  He is a capable backup to Dunlap and he is the only guy that is a good fit at LDE.  I think with more practice and game action, Hunt will have a lot of you eating your words. 

Although you are likely far too stubborn to admit it.

[Stormborn]

(08-31-2015, 10:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Watching the game on TV is not the same as watching it live.  I'm saying he did things he didn't, according to you, but then you spend the rest of the thread explaining why he will make the team...that's rich.  As I have been saying all along:  He is a capable backup to Dunlap and he is the only guy that is a good fit at LDE.  I think with more practice and game action, Hunt will have a lot of you eating your words. 

Although you are likely far too stubborn to admit it.

Like I said, what does making the team have anything to do with him being good? Many non deserving players make NFL squads because of draft status and hard-on's from their coaches who don't won't to give up just yet, only they're legitimately running out of time for this player.

As for the bolded, I'll be waiting.



For real though, the issue isn't if Hunt will make the team, we can still keep Carter, but another more deserving player will likely get cut because of it.

Keep your best 53.