Atkins and Dunlap Extensions

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-28-2018, 09:37 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: They also played good defense during that stretch as well only giving up 17 points per a game.

I mean, they shut out the hapless Cardinals, but EVERYONE looks great defensively against the Cardinals this year. The Cardinals have scored 20 points in 3 games, or 6.66/game. That would be like if the Ravens defense bragged about shutting out the Bengals last year in Week 1... heck, even the Bengals scored 33 points in the first 3 weeks last year, and we remember how painful that was to watch. So imagine how bad an offense has to be to score 20 in 3 games.

It is painful to even imagine.

[TSwigZ]

Honestly thought these two have been productive on a defense that’s been blasted. Dunlap has been really good and Geno has had some flashes. Lawson needs to shake off this slow start

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-28-2018, 11:53 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Honestly thought these two have been productive on a defense that’s been blasted. Dunlap has been really good and Geno has had some flashes. Lawson needs to shake off this slow start

Yeah, Atkins has been real good, and Dunlap SHOULD have 2 more sacks to his name if it weren't for garbage penalties to protect Luck from getting breathed on.

That said, it hasn't translated into a great defense. The Bengals defense is 26th in yards and t-19th in scoring.

Burfict coming back should help the 26th rush defense improve (but probably not turn it into a great one), but it won't do much of anything for the 23rd passing defense. That also assumes Burfict stays both healthy and unejected/unsuspended for the final 12 games of the season.

6 of the Bengals top-10 paid players are defenders. I'm just wondering with the results we're seeing, and the rules we're seeing, if that's not wise.


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EDIT: There are 3 undefeated teams left in the NFL.

LAR who has the 15th passing defense.
Miami who has the 29th passing defense.
KC who has the t-31st (aka last) passing defense.

[J24]

(09-28-2018, 10:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, they shut out the hapless Cardinals, but EVERYONE looks great defensively against the Cardinals this year. The Cardinals have scored 20 points in 3 games, or 6.66/game. That would be like if the Ravens defense bragged about shutting out the Bengals last year in Week 1... heck, even the Bengals scored 33 points in the first 3 weeks last year, and we remember how painful that was to watch. So imagine how bad an offense has to be to score 20 in 3 games.

It is painful to even imagine.

They also played the Redskins and Bears two good defense as well. Maybe that's why there struggling to score so much. 

(09-29-2018, 12:20 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, Atkins has been real good, and Dunlap SHOULD have 2 more sacks to his name if it weren't for garbage penalties to protect Luck from getting breathed on.

That said, it hasn't translated into a great defense. The Bengals defense is 26th in yards and t-19th in scoring.

Burfict coming back should help the 26th rush defense improve (but probably not turn it into a great one), but it won't do much of anything for the 23rd passing defense. That also assumes Burfict stays both healthy and unejected/unsuspended for the final 12 games of the season.

6 of the Bengals top-10 paid players are defenders. I'm just wondering with the results we're seeing, and the rules we're seeing, if that's not wise.


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EDIT:  There are 3 undefeated teams left in the NFL.

LAR who has the 15th passing defense.
Miami who has the 29th passing defense.
KC who has the t-31st (aka last) passing defense.

They have had one bad game against the Panthers on rushing defense. They did great in that area against the Ravens and Colts. 
As for the pass defense of course you are going to give up yards when teams throw the ball 50+ times which both the Colts and Ravens did.
Anyways you're using a very small sample size to prove your point. Maybe wait to the end of the season to make your point. Usually it works itself out in the end.

[grampahol]

Simply put, many fans are now obsessed with records being broken even if it means the rules have to be changed to make it happen. It used to be that "the greatest players of all time"  were once every few generations types, now they're every year..  I have no doubt that a few have already annointed Maholmes as the greatest of all time in his short history...and of course the league is all too happy to change rules for such silliness.. Can anyone even imagine 15 QBs throwing for 5000+ yards in a single season and anyone taking serious the notion of greatest of all time anymore  ?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-28-2018, 08:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A partial reason, but I wouldn't argue a big reason. Guy has 12 tackles (only 6 of which are solo), 2.0 sacks, and no other stats after 4 games.

I would say the biggest reason they won (and are 4-0) is that they've scored 33, 34, 35, and 38 points in their games this year. If you score 35 points per game, you're going to win even if you don't have Aaron Donald.

I would say Goff having a *perfect* passer rating is a much bigger reason the Rams won last night.

Donald had a lot of pressures besides those 2 sacks and forced Cousins to throw the ball away at critical moments
toward the end of the game. Cousins could of brought the Vikes back without those pressures and sacks the way he
was playing. I think Donald is a bit overrated but he was a big reason they won.

Defense is still and always will be a big deal and it will sort itself out as the season goes on.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-28-2018, 04:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Perhaps a lot of these big extensions for Atkins/Dunlap/Mack/Donald and the like are coming at a rather terrible time.

With the rules changing and all of that, they are making it awfully hard to play defense in the NFL, and even the pass rushers are being punished by this BS body weight rule, which I am certain I have seen Atkins come in soft on a QB at least once because he knew he couldn't hit him hard, and it ended up not being a sack because he didn't get him down.

Maybe now is the time to invest heavy in OL and skill players on the offense.
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Last year the leader in passing YPG in the NFL was Tom Brady with 286.

Here in 2018 so far there are 13 QBs who have more than 286 passing YPG.

Think about that. 13 QBs have thrown for more than the leader of last year. Heck, there are 7 with at least 300 YPG, 4 with at least 350 YPG, and 1 with at least 400 YPG.

If the current pace holds, there will be....
-6 QBs who throw for 5,000 yards.
-3 QBs who throw for at least 50 TDs
-7 QBs who throw for at least 40 TDs
-15 QBs who throw for at least 30 TDs.

Those numbers, respectively, last year were 0, 0, 0, and 3.
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Maybe as we're watching Mike Zimmer suddenly no longer able to coach a successful defense, it might be the end of successful defenses and the new plan should be just to make a team that can outscore the other team.

I love me some Geno Atkins, but a part of me can't help but wonder if the Bengals made a move that won't end up paying off when all is said and done because it was done in a philosophy that might be outdated now.

Just imagine what another offseason or two will bring rules-wise to make this absurd situation even more absurd.

So the offensive explosion did calm down a little as the weather got crappier, and they did realize how absolutely stupid the body weight rule was being called, but it was still an absurd year for inflated offensive numbers.


That 13 QBs surpassing Tom Brady's 2017 lead of 286 yards passing per game ended up being 6, but that's still crazy when you think 6 threw more than the previous year's leader.

-We did get 2 QBs who threw for 5,000 yards (and another who was 86 yards shy).
-We did get 1 50 TD QB.
-The 40+ TD QBs really slipped down and instead it turned out to be 1 (the 50 TD QB).
-The 30+ TD QBs were still pretty serious with 9 (THREE TIMES the amount of 2017).

-Last year the Compltion % was Brees with 72.0%. Nobody else was even at 68%. There were 6 QBs with 65% or higher.
-The leader in 2018 was Brees again, this time with 74.4%, with Cousins 2nd at 70.1%. There were *8* with 68% or more, and *19* with 65% or higher.

-Last year the QB Rating leader was Alex Smith with a 104.7 Rating. There were 5 QBs with 100+, 10 with 95+, and 15 with 90+.
-The leader in 2018 was Drew Brees with a 115.7 Rating. There were 3 QBs with 110+, 9 QBs with 100+, 16 with 95+, and 24 with 90+.


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There still looks to be a spot for the Macks and Donalds in the league, but I really do wonder if there's still not validity in this thread that as the rules are right now you need offense first. Sure the run and D helps when it gets crappy weather, but Super Bowls aren't generally going to be played in crappy weather, and you can't reach the playoffs if you can't win any shootouts earlier in the year.

Rules are getting pretty crazy for offense and I don't see them making moves to lower scoring.

The future good teams might just be offensive juggernauts that have a defense like the 2005 Bengals where they are mostly playing for turnovers.

[Goalpost]

I mean Andy's stats don't look too bad but...

He threw for 233 yards per game and that put him...24th

His completion percentage was 61.9 and that put him... 28th

His qb rating was 89.6 and that put him...26th

His yards/attempt was 7.03 and that put him...25th

[Catmandude123]

(09-28-2018, 04:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Perhaps a lot of these big extensions for Atkins/Dunlap/Mack/Donald and the like are coming at a rather terrible time.

With the rules changing and all of that, they are making it awfully hard to play defense in the NFL, and even the pass rushers are being punished by this BS body weight rule, which I am certain I have seen Atkins come in soft on a QB at least once because he knew he couldn't hit him hard, and it ended up not being a sack because he didn't get him down.

Maybe now is the time to invest heavy in OL and skill players on the offense.
- - - - - - - - - - -

Last year the leader in passing YPG in the NFL was Tom Brady with 286.

Here in 2018 so far there are 13 QBs who have more than 286 passing YPG.

Think about that. 13 QBs have thrown for more than the leader of last year. Heck, there are 7 with at least 300 YPG, 4 with at least 350 YPG, and 1 with at least 400 YPG.

If the current pace holds, there will be....
-6 QBs who throw for 5,000 yards.
-3 QBs who throw for at least 50 TDs
-7 QBs who throw for at least 40 TDs
-15 QBs who throw for at least 30 TDs.

Those numbers, respectively, last year were 0, 0, 0, and 3.
- - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe as we're watching Mike Zimmer suddenly no longer able to coach a successful defense, it might be the end of successful defenses and the new plan should be just to make a team that can outscore the other team.

I love me some Geno Atkins, but a part of me can't help but wonder if the Bengals made a move that won't end up paying off when all is said and done because it was done in a philosophy that might be outdated now.

Just imagine what another offseason or two will bring rules-wise to make this absurd situation even more absurd.

The biggest commodity in the NFL is the QB. Always has been but this years new rules have put the QB at a definite advantage. With all the rules changes and then watching the blatant holding that goes on and you can see why the numbers are so high. The better QBs get a lot more protection than the younger ones. 

[Catmandude123]

(01-05-2019, 08:30 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I mean Andy's stats don't look too bad but...

He threw for 233 yards per game and that put him...24th

His completion percentage was 61.9 and that put him... 28th

His qb rating was 89.6 and that put him...26th

His yards/attempt was 7.03 and that put him...25th

His stats are a product of poor o-line play , has been for years. Brady would have spent half the year on IR too.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-28-2018, 05:17 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: People have been saying this for years and Everytime it turns out to be wrong. Come playoff time defense will matter because it always has. Even if the numbers continue to spike and it becomes an all out offense game; every big play on defense will have more value to it because there less of them.

Agree. Come playoff time defense matters. Bears shit down the Rams. Cheifs lost to the chargers. Donald n Mack are worth every penny.

[BengalChris]

(01-05-2019, 08:30 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I mean Andy's stats don't look too bad but...

He threw for 233 yards per game and that put him...24th

His completion percentage was 61.9 and that put him... 28th

His qb rating was 89.6 and that put him...26th

His yards/attempt was 7.03 and that put him...25th

His career passer rating is 88.8.

His career yard/attempt is 7.17 yards.

His career completion percentage is 62.3%.

His career yards per game is 234.2 yards.

So, this year was basically normal for him, not a function of the injuries, the OL or anything else. It's just about what you can expect to get from him on average.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-28-2018, 04:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Perhaps a lot of these big extensions for Atkins/Dunlap/Mack/Donald and the like are coming at a rather terrible time.

With the rules changing and all of that, they are making it awfully hard to play defense in the NFL, and even the pass rushers are being punished by this BS body weight rule, which I am certain I have seen Atkins come in soft on a QB at least once because he knew he couldn't hit him hard, and it ended up not being a sack because he didn't get him down.

Maybe now is the time to invest heavy in OL and skill players on the offense.
- - - - - - - - - - -

Last year the leader in passing YPG in the NFL was Tom Brady with 286.

Here in 2018 so far there are 13 QBs who have more than 286 passing YPG.

Think about that. 13 QBs have thrown for more than the leader of last year. Heck, there are 7 with at least 300 YPG, 4 with at least 350 YPG, and 1 with at least 400 YPG.

If the current pace holds, there will be....
-6 QBs who throw for 5,000 yards.
-3 QBs who throw for at least 50 TDs
-7 QBs who throw for at least 40 TDs
-15 QBs who throw for at least 30 TDs.

Those numbers, respectively, last year were 0, 0, 0, and 3.
- - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe as we're watching Mike Zimmer suddenly no longer able to coach a successful defense, it might be the end of successful defenses and the new plan should be just to make a team that can outscore the other team.

I love me some Geno Atkins, but a part of me can't help but wonder if the Bengals made a move that won't end up paying off when all is said and done because it was done in a philosophy that might be outdated now.

Just imagine what another offseason or two will bring rules-wise to make this absurd situation even more absurd.

Definately need to invest heavily in the O-line that is for sure but you need a good Defense too. We are finally seeing it in the Playoffs, good Defense and it has been very refreshing in my eyes. The Chargers played great yesterday on D.