PFF: Bengals OL Ranked 30th

[thillan]

(10-14-2018, 08:54 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: My positive spin:

With almost no real contact in practice any more, and very little time played in the preseason, this line is just starting to gel.

They have FOUR or the FIVE spots entirely new vs. last year.

Bobby Hart was long seen as the biggest question mark, but he is steadily improving and had his best game last week.  

What also seems to be lost on PFF rankings is we are averaging a better YPC number in the rushing attack than we have in years.  The right side may still struggle a bit in pass blocking but those two big boys have made it so that every 3rd and 2 isn't an automatic pass play.

They will get better when Price returns and they will continue to get better as the season wears on.  Perhaps what is best about them is they seem to be doing their best when we absolutely need them.  The last drive against Atlanta?  The last offensive drive against the Dolphins?  

I am not saying the Pro Bowl will be littered with Bengal offensive linemen, but they are good enough right now and evolving in to "solid".

Compared to last year, I will take it.  

Interesting thought came into my head in regards to the bolded portion of your post Racer:

I wonder if there is a stat that shows a correlation of how many pro bowl O-lineman you have, with say your final record, or postseason success. I know the talk is always about a franchise QB, but man having a stout O-line can make things SO easy. Look at how the Bears, the Saints, and teams like that are playing this year.

Miss our 2015 line lol

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2018, 10:55 AM)thillan Wrote: Interesting thought came into my head in regards to the bolded portion of your post Racer:

I wonder if there is a stat that shows a correlation of how many pro bowl O-lineman you have, with say your final record, or postseason success. I know the talk is always about a franchise QB, but man having a stout O-line can make things SO easy. Look at how the Bears, the Saints, and teams like that are playing this year.

Miss our 2015 line lol

Well, I know a lot of tackles that were on piss poor teams....The Browns had a perennial Pro Bowler, as did the 49ers.  The Eagles, who sucked many a years, had a Pro Bowl tackle and Guard for a while.  One of the best centers was at Miami.  

I think it is more about cohesiveness.  They may not dominate man to man, but if they work together well and are solid as a unit, that is how teams win in the post season.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-14-2018, 10:43 AM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Football Outsiders' rankings - https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

That looks much more accurate to what the results have been so far. Lapham has said all along, if the line can just be average, the offense will be good. I think he knows a little more about line play than the goobers at PFF. 

[Yojimbo]

(10-14-2018, 02:08 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The defense allowed 28 points per game over the first 4, and we started 3-1.

Just because the defense just had a great effort last week, doesn't mean it wasn't atrocious the first 4 games. 

The offense carried the team until last week.

I think you missed my point. It isn't that the defense is doing great. It's that without late game TD's by the defense. We lose Colts game without Fedj late score. We lose Fins game without returns by MJ and Hubbard. So, my point is we're a 2-3 team without those events and a 2-3 team could very well have a 30th ranked offensive line.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2018, 11:10 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That looks much more accurate to what the results have been so far. Lapham has said all along, if the line can just be average, the offense will be good. I think he knows a little more about line play than the goobers at PFF. 

Footballoutsiders run block ranking (Adjusted Line Yards) uses a formula that gives the O-line more blame for 0 or negative yardage runs all the credit for runs 0-4 yds, and then less credit for yards gained longer downfield. Bengals #11

Adjusted Sack percentage is sacks/pass play adjustment for strength of opponent pass rush. Bengals 10th 

To me sacks depend on so many different things (Offensive scheme, QB's decisions, playing from behind a lot, RBs blocking, ect) it is hard to judge an O-line on sack numbers.  But overall bad O-lines usually give up more sacks. 

And a lot of you will be surprised to see this.  Here are the ranks for the Bengals O-lines "Adjusted Line Yards" (run blocking) followed by our RBs rankings in "2nd Level Yards" (yards gained between 5 and 10 yards past line of scrimmage/run plays) and "Open Field Yards" (Yards gained over 10+ yards from line of scrimmage/run plays)

......ALY...2LY...OFY
'12.....11.....31.....10
'13.....11.....26.....30
'14.....11.....16..... 3
'15..... 1.....14.....31
'16.....14.....26.....23
'17.....24.....12.....31

That's right, according to FootballOutsiders our O-line run blocking was close to top ten from '12 through '16 and actually the BEST in the league in 2015.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2018, 11:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well, I know a lot of tackles that were on piss poor teams....The Browns had a perennial Pro Bowler, as did the 49ers.  The Eagles, who sucked many a years, had a Pro Bowl tackle and Guard for a while.  One of the best centers was at Miami.  

I think it is more about cohesiveness.  They may not dominate man to man, but if they work together well and are solid as a unit, that is how teams win in the post season.  

Eh? The Eagles have only 4 losing seasons out of the 18 since 2000... and won a SB, went to another, won their division 8 times, and won at least 1 playoff game in 8 seasons during that span.

(For Comparison: the Bengals since 2000 are at 11 losing seasons out of 18, 0 SB wins, 0 SB appearances, 4 division titles, and 0 playoff wins.)


I'll have some of that sucking, please.

[grampahol]

(10-14-2018, 12:17 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think you missed my point. It isn't that the defense is doing great. It's that without late game TD's by the defense. We lose Colts game without Fedj late score. We lose Fins game without returns by MJ and Hubbard. So, my point is we're a 2-3 team without those events and a 2-3 team could very well have a 30th ranked offensive line.

Well then it's a darn good thing that we're allowed to get points any way we can within the parameters of the rules of the game..
I'm waiting for Bullock to pick up a blocked FG from the 50 yardline and run it in for a winning TD.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2018, 12:33 PM)grampahol Wrote: Well then it's a darn good thing that we're allowed to get points any way we can within the parameters of the rules of the game..
I'm waiting for Bullock to pick up a blocked FG from the 50 yardline and run it in for a winning TD.

[*psychdoctor*]

Seeing Bodine ranked higher than price already tells me something. Price got bull rushed on the first play of his NFL career and since then he's been solid until his injury.

But I will say this that Center that plays for the Georgia Bulldogs seem special he's on my radar. I think his name is Gaillard.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2018, 12:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Eh? The Eagles have only 4 losing seasons out of the 18 since 2000... and won a SB, went to another, won their division 8 times, and won at least 1 playoff game in 8 seasons during that span.

(For Comparison: the Bengals since 2000 are at 11 losing seasons out of 18, 0 SB wins, 0 SB appearances, 4 division titles, and 0 playoff wins.)


I'll have some of that sucking, please.

I guess I wasn't going as far back as 2000, but recently they had a really good tackle and guard and hadn't done much as far as playoff wins....at least that was how I remembered it...even with two of the best in the league on their offensive line.  Since 2010, they averaged roughly 7.5 wins per year, until they had their huge season last year (with a change of coaching staff).  

It just seemed like they had a lot of talent but couldn't do much with it until last year.  

FWIW, I think having a really good center is a key to all of this.  Look at what Mack did for Atlanta, and how Seattle was when they had one....ditto Dallas's collapse without Frederick.

That is why I am so high on Billy Price.  I think he is going to be a great, long-term fixture in the middle of our line.