Drafted Starters

[Stormborn]

(09-02-2015, 01:43 PM)xavierdude Wrote: SO YOU HAVE MARVIN LEWIS AS A HEAD COACH WHOM HAS NOT HAD A SINGLE PLAYOFF WIN IN WHAT 11 YEARS  AND FOR SURE HE WOULD BE A TERRIFIC GM.. ?

GM's coach now?

[kdgjr]

I gotta chime in...this whole "Oooh look at how many guys we drafted are starters" is the same BS Mike Brown and Marvin spewed at that disastrous press conference towards the end of Carson's tenure.

What made it worse then is that we were coming off a terrible season and he pointed to it with such a sense of pride. If you draft and start players, then suck, why the pride?

Given all that...yes, NOW we have had good teams the past 4 years and a lot of it was due to homegrown talent, but I'm not willing to compliment on us now for the same reason. We didn't change...we just are riding a bit of a positive wave now but it's with the same philosophy that made us 4-12 not many years ago.

[CJD]

(09-02-2015, 02:22 PM)kdgjr Wrote: I gotta chime in...this whole "Oooh look at how many guys we drafted are starters" is the same BS Mike Brown and Marvin spewed at that disastrous press conference towards the end of Carson's tenure.

What made it worse then is that we were coming off a terrible season and he pointed to it with such a sense of pride. If you draft and start players, then suck, why the pride?

Given all that...yes, NOW we have had good teams the past 4 years and a lot of it was due to homegrown talent, but I'm not willing to compliment on us now for the same reason. We didn't change...we just are riding a bit of a positive wave now but it's with the same philosophy that made us 4-12 not many years ago.

You may not be willing to compliment them, but I am.

Good job Bengals. You suck at coaching, but you're damn good at finding talent to not coach.

[McC]

(09-01-2015, 09:34 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Yeah we've emulated the Packers' way of doing things quite well.


If we could only emulate their coaching as well....

I've been told that a lot of Packer fans can't stand the HC.  The thing that they have they we can't emulate is Aaron Rodgers.  He can make most coaches look pretty damned good.

[J24]

(09-02-2015, 12:09 PM)Okeana Wrote: Yeah i think the packs are probably the closest.  I dunno how the seahawks fit in, but a lot of their top guys were drafted by them.  I know they made a big splash in free agency this year, but most of their guys are homegrown ?

Packers only have 3 players that were not drafted by them or were UDFA. Seahawks have a couple of starters that were not drafted by them.

[Bengal Dude]

(09-01-2015, 09:19 PM)J24 Wrote: Packers are pretty similar to us in that way as well. Even the starters that have been drafted by other teams feel like ours because they been here since 2010.

I believe the Packers are the only team that have more "homegrown" players than us. I remember that being reported last year.

[kdgjr]

(09-02-2015, 03:41 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You may not be willing to compliment them, but I am.

Good job Bengals. You suck at coaching, but you're damn good at finding talent to not coach.

Aint that the truth. Rep.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-01-2015, 02:16 PM)Okeana Wrote: Yeah its pretty amazing considering the mentality of most teams.  If Marvin were to lead this team to a Lombardi this year it would be one of the biggest franchise turnaround's in league history.  Considering the team Marvin Lewis started with and where he is now it's nothing short of amazing.  I think a lot of people are bitter because lack of playoff success and rightfully so, but it only takes 1 year and those same people will be calling him one of the best coaches of this generation.  Having a sustainable team of home grown talent and considered one of the deepest rosters in the league is nothing to scoff at.

Either way I'm getting the feeling that he wants to retire from coaching after this year and I think he's left this team in a much better place than where he started.

An amazing turn around would have been doing it in 4-5 years, not more than a decade.  He deserves credit, but he has also had more time than most other professional sports franchises would have allowed him.

As to the original question.  Yes, the team has been drafting well, but this also speaks to their unwillingness to go after free agent talent.  If you look at most Super Bowl rosters they have a core of talent that is home grown and supplement that with key free agent additions.

[Okeana]

(09-02-2015, 01:43 PM)xavierdude Wrote: SO YOU HAVE MARVIN LEWIS AS A HEAD COACH WHOM HAS NOT HAD A SINGLE PLAYOFF WIN IN WHAT 11 YEARS  AND FOR SURE HE WOULD BE A TERRIFIC GM.. ?

First why would you speak in all caps ?  are you like a yelling child without enough attention.  If Marvin left today do you think the team was better than when he first became coach ?  He transitioned this team from a laughing stock to a serious contender which isn't easy to do with a small market team with our ownership.  He has completely changed our culture and I frankly don't give a shit if this guy never wins a single playoff game.  He would be a great GM for this team.

[Okeana]

(09-02-2015, 05:41 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: An amazing turn around would have been doing it in 4-5 years, not more than a decade.  He deserves credit, but he has also had more time than most other professional sports franchises would have allowed him.

As to the original question.  Yes, the team has been drafting well, but this also speaks to their unwillingness to go after free agent talent.  If you look at most Super Bowl rosters they have a core of talent that is home grown and supplement that with key free agent additions.

People talk all this same stuff every year like a broken record.  boo hoo we didn't sign Suh, boo hoo they didn't draft who I wanted them to.  If you think we suck so bad go become a Jaguar's fan.  They made big free agency moves and drafted some names.  

The NFL has a lot more shitty teams than good ones and we have a roster deep with talent that we have developed.  So instead of finding reasons to cut people down and scape goat them try lifting people up.  

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-02-2015, 06:21 PM)Okeana Wrote: People talk all this same stuff every year like a broken record.  boo hoo we didn't sign Suh, boo hoo they didn't draft who I wanted them to.  If you think we suck so bad go become a Jaguar's fan.  They made big free agency moves and drafted some names.  

The NFL has a lot more shitty teams than good ones and we have a roster deep with talent that we have developed.  So instead of finding reasons to cut people down and scape goat them try lifting people up.  

I did not say anything about signing Suh, or any other specific player.  I was simply pointing out that most Super Bowl teams augment their drafts with signings at positions of need in Free Agency (for instance, the Patriots bringing in Browner and Revis before winning another championship last year).  I was also pointing out that, because of the lack of Free Agency activity, it is not surprising that the Bengals have drafted most of their starters... it is common sense.
I do so love it when one fan feels the need to tell another fan to leave or how they should feel though.  Also, unless you're a member of the team or front office, there is no "we"...

[CoCoNuT]

STAT OF THE DAY

Will have more coming next week about the Bengals homegrown offense/defense. Here's a look from 538 on the percentage of homegrown players across the league. The connection between homegrown and success is not hard to see. Check the bottom five on that list. Four of the five teams won five games or less last year. The other had Andrew Luck.

Green Bay: 92.8%
Pittsburgh: 85.1%
Dallas: 79.9%
Cincinnati: 77.9%
Seattle: 76.0%
Draft. And. Develop.



http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/02/walkthrough-could-bengals-pull--trade/71566668/

[Element]

(09-02-2015, 01:43 PM)xavierdude Wrote: SO YOU HAVE MARVIN LEWIS AS A HEAD COACH WHOM HAS NOT HAD A SINGLE PLAYOFF WIN IN WHAT 11 YEARS  AND FOR SURE HE WOULD BE A TERRIFIC GM.. ?

Wow your caps lock is intimating everyone, please stop!

[Okeana]

(09-03-2015, 12:22 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I did not say anything about signing Suh, or any other specific player.  I was simply pointing out that most Super Bowl teams augment their drafts with signings at positions of need in Free Agency (for instance, the Patriots bringing in Browner and Revis before winning another championship last year).  I was also pointing out that, because of the lack of Free Agency activity, it is not surprising that the Bengals have drafted most of their starters... it is common sense.
I do so love it when one fan feels the need to tell another fan to leave or how they should feel though.  Also, unless you're a member of the team or front office, there is no "we"...

1.  As a fan from cincinnati who's tax dollars support the team I can say " we " whenever I please.  Stop trying to nitpick to find ground to stand on.

2.  You didn't say Suh, but this again is an example not a quote.  People cry when we don't make free agency splashes, but then credit the team for having homegrown talent.  You want to latch on to Revis as the example, well what about the seahawks ?  a team of homegrown talent that destroyed the Broncos the year before?  This is an example of one fan seeing another fan saying something and it catching on like wildfire.  Last year we didn't lose the playoff game because we didn't have key free agents... we lost because our roster was destroyed by injury.

3.  I am not telling you how to feel, but rather giving you some solid advice.  This self loathing atmosphere among Bengals fans is tiresome.  "We" Have a good competitive team in a league where it's pretty uncommon.  Sure it would be nice to have the front office make every perfect decision and live in fantasy land, but for now I will give credit where its due and realize that nothing is perfect.

[Okeana]

(09-03-2015, 12:52 PM)CoCoNuT Wrote: STAT OF THE DAY

Will have more coming next week about the Bengals homegrown offense/defense. Here's a look from 538 on the percentage of homegrown players across the league. The connection between homegrown and success is not hard to see. Check the bottom five on that list. Four of the five teams won five games or less last year. The other had Andrew Luck.

Green Bay: 92.8%
Pittsburgh: 85.1%
Dallas: 79.9%
Cincinnati: 77.9%
Seattle: 76.0%
Draft. And. Develop.



http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/02/walkthrough-could-bengals-pull--trade/71566668/

Love the stats and the watchman avatar.  I am super surprised by pittsburgh being above us, but it kind of makes sense now that I think about it.  Do you have a link to these stats ?

[CoCoNuT]

(09-03-2015, 02:24 PM)Okeana Wrote: Love the stats and the watchman avatar.  I am super surprised by pittsburgh being above us, but it kind of makes sense now that I think about it.  Do you have a link to these stats ?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2015-nfl-preview-what-to-expect-if-youre-a-packers-lions-vikings-or-bears-fan/

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-03-2015, 02:22 PM)Okeana Wrote: 1.  As a fan from cincinnati who's tax dollars support the team I can say " we " whenever I please.  Stop trying to nitpick to find ground to stand on.

2.  You didn't say Suh, but this again is an example not a quote.  People cry when we don't make free agency splashes, but then credit the team for having homegrown talent.  You want to latch on to Revis as the example, well what about the seahawks ?  a team of homegrown talent that destroyed the Broncos the year before?  This is an example of one fan seeing another fan saying something and it catching on like wildfire.  Last year we didn't lose the playoff game because we didn't have key free agents... we lost because our roster was destroyed by injury.

3.  I am not telling you how to feel, but rather giving you some solid advice.  This self loathing atmosphere among Bengals fans is tiresome.  "We" Have a good competitive team in a league where it's pretty uncommon.  Sure it would be nice to have the front office make every perfect decision and live in fantasy land, but for now I will give credit where its due and realize that nothing is perfect.

The Seahawks, like New England, are a very good example of supplementing your drafts with quality signings.  Bennett, Avril, and Lynch are all players that were brought in to do so.
And, again, my main point was that when a team is not active in Free Agency, the majority of their roster is going to be from the draft.  It's really not a difficult concept to understand... there are two main avenues for acquiring players, the draft and free agency.