2nd half opportunity - rediscover deep ball?

[sonofstat]

Where has the deep ball gone this season?

At the halfway point we have only 1 40+yard pass play. We typically average 11+ 40 yard pass plays in the season with Andy.

Interestingly we are currently on average for the most 20+yard pass plays in an season with Andy. Guess that speaks to Lazor's philosophy of get it out of Andy's hand quickly on short, medium depth routes.

That said maybe this is an opportunity to vary the playbook up in the 2nd half and introduce a few deeper pass attempts on defenses sitting in on the running game, quicker pass drops??

[Sled21]

(10-31-2018, 01:38 PM)sonofstat Wrote: Where has the deep ball gone this season?

At the halfway point we have only 1 40+yard pass play.  We typically average 11+ 40 yard pass plays in the season with Andy.

Interestingly we are currently on average for the most 20+yard pass plays in an season with Andy. Guess that speaks to Lazor's philosophy of get it out of Andy's hand quickly on short, medium depth routes.

That said maybe this is an opportunity to vary the playbook up in the 2nd half and introduce a few deeper pass attempts on defenses sitting in on the running game, quicker pass drops??

Andy has to have time to let the receivers get downfield to throw the deep ball. The oline has done a decent job protecting him because he is getting the ball out quickly. If he holds it, he is going to be sacked. It's just that simple.

[Joelist]

(10-31-2018, 01:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Andy has to have time to let the receivers get downfield to throw the deep ball. The oline has done a decent job protecting him because he is getting the ball out quickly. If he holds it, he is going to be sacked. It's just that simple.

This is it in a nutshell. Our line is not good enough yet for plays that take a long time to develop.

[*bengalfan74*]

The exception being if we can get the opposition to respect the run, then you can go play action and suck the safeties up and have time to go deep.

The problem of course being we have trouble establishing the run against most teams and/or Lazor goes away from it totally.

[Brimey]

I think AJ had lost a step. He's still a great WR, but I don't believe he's the deep threat he was even 2 seasons ago. With Boyd's emergence this would be the perfect time for Ross to be the guy who takes the top off. But, we know how that's gone. Malone has that ability as well, but has been on the bench and a non factor when he's actually in

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 01:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Andy has to have time to let the receivers get downfield to throw the deep ball. The oline has done a decent job protecting him because he is getting the ball out quickly. If he holds it, he is going to be sacked. It's just that simple.

This is a very large part of it, for sure.  That said, it's better than last season, when we didn't even have a shot at the intermediate stuff.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-31-2018, 02:06 PM)Brimey Wrote: I think AJ had lost a step. He's still a great WR, but I don't believe he's the deep threat he was even 2 seasons ago. With Boyd's emergence this would be the perfect time for Ross to be the guy who takes the top off. But, we know how that's gone. Malone has that ability as well, but has been on the bench and a non factor when he's actually in

Huh?

No he hasn't.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-31-2018, 01:38 PM)sonofstat Wrote: Where has the deep ball gone this season?

At the halfway point we have only 1 40+yard pass play.  We typically average 11+ 40 yard pass plays in the season with Andy.

Interestingly we are currently on average for the most 20+yard pass plays in an season with Andy. Guess that speaks to Lazor's philosophy of get it out of Andy's hand quickly on short, medium depth routes.

That said maybe this is an opportunity to vary the playbook up in the 2nd half and introduce a few deeper pass attempts on defenses sitting in on the running game, quicker pass drops??

Need the O-line to give Dalton time and we will see more deep balls.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-31-2018, 02:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is a very large part of it, for sure.  That said, it's better than last season, when we didn't even have a shot at the intermediate stuff.

Yes, it is much better than last season but still needs to improve for the deep ball to happen more.

Can see it on Play Action plays though if Mixon is running all over a team.

[Bengalitis]

The speedster that was supposed to be the go-to guy (ROSS) for the deep threat is not there, probably wont be there again for this season.

[Brimey]

(10-31-2018, 02:11 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Huh?

No he hasn't.

He's 30 years old and has 7.5 years of NFL wear and tear. It would be shocking if he hadn't lost a bit of speed. His longest catch of the year has been 39 yards in Week 1. I'm used to seeing AJ have multiple 40+ yard reveptions by this point and maybe a 75+ yard catch

[Brimey]

(10-31-2018, 02:16 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: The speedster that was supposed to be the go-to guy (ROSS) for the deep threat is not there, probably wont be there again for this season.

I was assuming we'd see him again after the bye .am I missing something about his injury severity?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, it is much better than last season but still needs to improve for the deep ball to happen more.

Can see it on Play Action plays though if Mixon is running all over a team.

Absolutely agree.  Hopefully, they're aggressive again this offeason, then my prediction hopefully comes true. :andy:

[XsandOs]

(10-31-2018, 02:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The exception being if we can get the opposition to respect the run, then you can go play action and suck the safeties up and have time to go deep.

The problem of course being we have trouble establishing the run against most teams and/or Lazor goes away from it totally.

You just hit the nail on the head. The issue with the offense is lack of a power run game. 

Mixon is a good runner, but he is not a guy that you expect to run between tackles 25-30 times a game, without an escort in NFL. Naturally, he is bouncing runs outside often.

Hewitt release, coupled with Cethan Carter injury, leaves the Team without the personnel to establish a true power run game.

Injuries to Gio, Mixon and Walton have left the Team to running out of a single back look. Can't recall when was the last time that I've seen a two back set, let alone I formation.

The inability to establish the run game was the main issue at KC. That allowed their pass rush to shut us down.

It showed up again in the Tampa game in the second half when Mixon rushed 7 times for a total of 13 yards I believe. This inability to establish the run led to 4 consecutive 3 and out possessions in the 3rd and 4th quarter. He had three minus yardage runs.

In regards to the deep ball, five and seven step drops, with the current state of the OL, will only work out of play action.

Some folks on this board have criticized Lazor for not calling a more balanced game. You cannot call plays where you don't have the personnel to execute them. Its really that simple.    

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(10-31-2018, 02:19 PM)Brimey Wrote: I was assuming we'd see him again after the bye .am I missing something about his injury severity?

May see him again but will he be effective or useless like before? Or just get injured again? Pull a hammy stopping on a route?

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-31-2018, 04:54 PM)XsandOs Wrote: You just hit the nail on the head. The issue with the offense is lack of a power run game. 

Mixon is a good runner, but he is not a guy that you expect to run between tackles 25-30 times a game, without an escort in NFL. Naturally, he is bouncing runs outside often.

Hewitt release, coupled with Cethan Carter injury, leaves the Team without the personnel to establish a true power run game.

Injuries to Gio, Mixon and Walton have left the Team to running out of a single back look. Can't recall when was the last time that I've seen a two back set, let alone I formation.

The inability to establish the run game was the main issue at KC. That allowed their pass rush to shut us down.

It showed up again in the Tampa game in the second half when Mixon rushed 7 times for a total of 13 yards I believe. This inability to establish the run led to 4 consecutive 3 and out possessions in the 3rd and 4th quarter. He had three minus yardage runs.

In regards to the deep ball, five and seven step drops, with the current state of the OL, will only work out of play action.

Some folks on this board have criticized Lazor for not calling a more balanced game. You cannot call plays where you don't have the personnel to execute them. Its really that simple.    

Yup,

If we can ever establish an effective inside running game knocking off 4,5,6 yards a carry it completely changes the offense !

When it's no gain, 2 yards, loss of one they don't respect it. 

[sonofstat]

(10-31-2018, 02:06 PM)Brimey Wrote: I think AJ had lost a step. He's still a great WR, but I don't believe he's the deep threat he was even 2 seasons ago. With Boyd's emergence this would be the perfect time for Ross to be the guy who takes the top off. But, we know how that's gone. Malone has that ability as well, but has been on the bench and a non factor when he's actually in

I do not think that is the case at all.

I can barely remember any routes where AJ has run deep though so i think its scheme , play calling.

He has lined up in the slot more than i can remember which is great for matchups but I do think in the 2nd half lining up outside when its man to man and just throw it over the CB's head and let him make the play would be good to see.

We've barely had any big chunk plays on offense this year

[sonofstat]

(10-31-2018, 07:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup,

If we can ever establish an effective inside running game knocking off 4,5,6 yards a carry it completely changes the offense !

When it's no gain, 2 yards, loss of one they don't respect it. 

But Mixon is averaging a very healthy 4.8 per carry.

Do you not think its playcalling....I'm a Lazor fan but when it gets tough he tends to bail out of the run.

I think continuing to pound the rock with Mixon has to open up some long play action shots to AJ??

[sonofstat]

(10-31-2018, 02:16 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: The speedster that was supposed to be the go-to guy (ROSS) for the deep threat is not there, probably wont be there again for this season.

Sorry but i do not buy ross' absence as being the reason for no deep passes.

I know that is the assumed truth due to his NFL fastest mantle but not the reality ...until he becomes a DeSean Jackson type producer and proven , consistent deep threat he's only a deep threat in the minds of this message board...hope it changes in the future of course

[*ochocincos*]

(10-31-2018, 02:06 PM)Brimey Wrote: I think AJ had lost a step. He's still a great WR, but I don't believe he's the deep threat he was even 2 seasons ago. With Boyd's emergence this would be the perfect time for Ross to be the guy who takes the top off. But, we know how that's gone. Malone has that ability as well, but has been on the bench and a non factor when he's actually in

A lot of people don't realize AJ Green is already 30 years old.