IF you were going to rebuild...what would your plan be?

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 02:49 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: So you're finally ready to move on from Marvin ?

I was ready after last season.

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 02:52 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This one team rewarded their HC for winning 7 less games in the same span.

Who is that team and coach?

That was a typo.

19 wins in THREE seasons.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-12-2018, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was ready after last season.

Sweet !

Fred he's got to go, period. We could change OC's and DC's 5 times between now and the opening game next season and nothing is truly going to change.

[Hoofhearted]

(11-12-2018, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That was a typo.

19 wins in THREE seasons.

The Bengals rewarded ML for having one less win in same time-frame. 

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 02:59 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The Bengals rewarded ML for having one less win in same time-frame. 

And that is the type of "proven winner" you think we have to hire?

[higgy100]

(11-12-2018, 11:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm not totally convinced we need a rebuild, but I'd:

1 ) Hire a young, offensive mind like LaFleur. I'd let him hire his assistants.
2 ) I'd increase our scouting and analytics department. We'd likely need to actually create an analytics department.
3 ) I'd draft a QB early in this years draft and let him sit behind Dalton for a year or 2.
    3A ) I'd explore trading Dalton.
4 ) I'd trade AJ Green for draft picks. He's over 30 years old and probably only has 2 years or so left as an elite WR. IF I could get a 1st and 4th for him I'd take it. Maybe to the Patriots? I'd love to see him win a Super Bowl.
5 ) I'd build a strong offensive line. I'd use high draft picks there. We need 2 new Tackles and a Guard.
6 ) I'd build initially around Mixon to take pressure off of the QB.
7 ) On defense, get some LB's that can pass cover. Build an aggressive scheme.
8 ) IF teams would trade for guys like Burfict and Kirkpatrick...I'd do it.
    8A ) If I couldn't trade Burfict, I'd waive him. He's hurt a lot. Suspended a lot. And he doesn't look good in games. You can't build a defense around a guy that's always suspended. Time to close the chapter on that book.
9 ) Free agency - I'd use it! Sign a couple young, quality free agents and the rebuild could accelerate.

10) have a new guy owner come in and offer Brown a deal he can't refuse...

[Whatever]

(11-12-2018, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you would hire the guy who is going to win 2 super bowls in the future.  Brilliant logic there.  Who is that coach?

The fact is that every coach who is a "proven winner" is also a "proven loser" or else he would still have a job.  Sometimes these guys do well at other HC jobs, but many of them also fail.  There are lots of Super Bowl Champion coaches who had never been Head Coaches before they wre hired.

I would have hired the guy that built an expansion team into a SB contender within 2 years.  

How long has it been since the Bengals have won a playoff game?  There is nobody in the Bengals FO that has any experience building a SB champion, let alone a team that can win playoff games.  For this club, I think it's important to have a HC that knows what is needed from the FO, the players, and the coaching staff to go all the way.  If we had a FO and/or roster with a championship or even playoff winning pedigree, it would be different.

[Hoofhearted]

(11-12-2018, 02:59 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The Bengals rewarded ML for having one less win in same time-frame. 

(11-12-2018, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that is the type of "proven winner" you think we have to hire?

Who says they want to hire a proven winner? 

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 03:12 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Who says they want to hire a proven winner? 

Try reading the posts in a conversation before you jump in.

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 03:08 PM)Whatever Wrote:  For this club, I think it's important to have a HC that knows what is needed from the FO, the players, and the coaching staff to go all the way.  

Marvin has a Super Bowl Champion ring.

[bengaloo]

I would hire Jim Harbaugh and let him build his staff from the ground up. Then I would decorate the stadium better and give bengaloo free season tickets and beer for life.

Edit: And I would let the new coaches decide what players to trade, keep, cut, etc. I wouldnt be in that part, so I cant sit here and say I'd trade anyone. Thats the problem with Mike. He's not a coach. I would want to let the coaches get the right players for their system. If that meant trading Dalton, so be it.

[Millhouse]

1. Build indoor facility to help bring in better free agents.
2. Expand scouting department funding.
3. Install stripper poles with strippers around PBS to increase attendance.
4. Hopefully find the next great head coach on the rise up.
5. Find the next franchise quarterback.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-12-2018, 02:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Hire that coach who has won a lot but never lost enough to get fired.

2.  Hire an OC who is young and aggressive with the pass game but who also sticks with the run.

3.  Hire the DC who is aggressive and blitzes, but also does not give up any big plays.

4.  Then I trade away our proven QB and take one of those guys in the first round that is a can't-miss sure-thing, not a first round bust like Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Matt Leinert, Brady Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Branden Weeden, Robert Griffen, E. J. Manuel, Teddy Bridegwater, Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, or Paxton Lynch.

4. Sometimes you gotta roll the dice. Nothing is a "given". For all we know this season could completely go up in flames.  Is it all on Dalton. Nope... but this thread is about hitting the reset button.  Would you rather trade Green, Atkins, or Dunlap.  That's where you value lies in picks or potential trade players. Dalton would garner almost as much even though our fan base de-values him.  So you're saying you'd never consider swapping him out for a high round QB?

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 03:43 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote:   So you're saying you'd never consider swapping him out for a high round QB?

Not now.

Better to build around a proven starter than start gambling on first round picks.  Plus using a first round pick on a QB leaves another hole somewhere else on the team.

If we were a 3 or 4 win team then I might consider trading Dalton, but we are not that far gone.

[Whatever]

(11-12-2018, 03:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has a Super Bowl Champion ring.

Your point being?  He had nowhere near the responsibility or power of a HC when he got it.

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 03:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: Your point being?  He had nowhere near the responsibility or power of a HC when he got it.

My point is he saw what needed to be done to get there.

There is a good reason coordinators from Super Bowl winning teams are usually hot prospects for head coaching jobs.

[Whatever]

(11-12-2018, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is he saw what needed to be done to get there.

There is a good reason coordinators from Super Bowl winning teams are usually hot prospects for head coaching jobs.

You can make a long list of failed hot coordinator head coaches just from Belichek's coaching tree alone.  In fact, a lot of the more successful coordinators turned HC's didn't come from title contenders.  Tomlin was a middling DC for the Vikings.  Sean Payton was the OC for the Cowboys.

There's a huge difference between being a coordinator on a successful team and being the HC.  The coordinators don't know everything that goes into it and oftentimes, a great HC is propping them up, not the other way around.  

[J24]

1.)We have the youngest roster in the league the rebuild is currently happening
2.) I rebuild the LB core and I stop valuing over the hill backups.
2b.) No more Johnson, Brown, or Rey types on my team. We need to use our spending money wisely an on guys that can actually contribute. If we are going to spend 13 million on players then they have to play when healthy.
3.) Only pass first players get drafted(in top 4 rds) or signed in free agency. These are pass rushers, pass cover guys, pass blockers, pass catchers, and of course QBs.
4.) I look to trade Boyd and Vontaz. I bet I could get a second for Boyd and a late third to 4th for Vontaz. If I could get 5 picks in the top 100 then I am looking at 5 starters or significant role players.
5.) 5th-7th Rd picks should not be considered as valuable as 1-4th. I would not trade just to get rid of but if there is an interesting veteran out there for the price I am making a move.

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2018, 04:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: You can make a long list of failed hot coordinator head coaches just from Belichek's coaching tree alone.  In fact, a lot of the more successful coordinators turned HC's didn't come from title contenders.  Tomlin was a middling DC for the Vikings.  Sean Payton was the OC for the Cowboys.

Now I am completely confused.  Payton and Tomlin are guys you would have rejected (along with other SB champion coaches Doug Pederson, John Harbaugh, and Mike McCarthy), because they are were not "proven winners"?

[Gamma Ray Tan]

1. Build time machine......I’m working on it.
2. Prevent conception of Mike Brown (don’t ask how, just someway)
3. Convince Paul Brown to invest in something other than football to make money, so winning is the only goal of the football team
4. Become GM
5. Win multiple Super Bowls

You’re Welcome