Still just sick over this...

[PDub80]

(09-06-2015, 02:13 PM)GodFather Wrote: I call bullshit. Show me the past 5 years our drafts and they're outcomes with a minimum of a year playing versus other teams drafts. Show me how they are the best drafting team. They're not. I don't think they are the worst. I think they are doing a good job. But the best? No way.

It's not bullshit, my fellow Bengals fan. It's 100% provable and true.

Can we agree that the Bengals roster is top 5(ish) in terms of all around talent? Top 10 at the WORST, right?

Consider this then.....

- A 2014 list of NFL teams with the number of originally drafted players still on the roster. NOTE: A list came out after this closer to the season that had the Bengals at #1 after training camp cuts. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/125361/inside-slant-building-with-your-own-draft-picks

In the above list, the Bengals are tied for 2nd with 4 other teams behind Green Bay (who leads by 3 picks).

- Now, check this out....

A 2012 article (excerpt) talking about quality of draft picks and performance ranking the Bengals at basically the top in high performing picks & UDFAs (not just guys who make the team). And in the 3 seasons since this article it has only gotten better. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/05/01/which-nfl-teams-have-been-best-draft-lately/H5mBGyXErkXptvVPFzg9TM/story.html

■ The Bengals and Vikings surprisingly appear at the top of most categories. The Bengals are tied for third in the league with 25 draft picks on the roster, are tied for third with 15 starters, T-3 with six first-rounders, T-3 with seven Pro Bowlers, and T-4 with two undrafted starters, including Pro Bowl linebacker Vontaze Burfict. The Vikings are T-3 with 25 draft picks, T-9 with five first-round picks, and second with four starters from the fifth-seventh rounds.


One point the above article makes at the end is that the NFL is still all about the QB and lists the Bengals as a victim of average QB play but an overall ultra talented roster.


- Lastly, if you really look at where the Bengals have some absolutely amazingly talented players, they get them all over the draft board. Atkins - 4th rounder, Dunlap - 2nd, Green -1st, MLJ - 5th, Burfict - UDFA, Hewitt (one of the best fullbacks in football) - UDFA, Hill - 2nd , MJ - 3rd round, and on and on.


If you look up and down their roster you will find really really great players taken by the Bengals at all sorts of draft positions. They don't have many throw away picks like they did pre-2011. They have drafted an incredible roster that rivals most in the NFL.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Wasn't Iloka a 4th rounder?

That dude is quickly becoming one of the best Free Safeties in the NFL...

[jjvolt]

(09-06-2015, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It would be confusing to just call him MJ as we already have another MJ on the team.

I think it is pretty straight forward to use his middle name.

cool. Got it.

[PDub80]

(09-06-2015, 04:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wasn't Iloka a 4th rounder?

That dude is quickly becoming one of the best Free Safeties in the NFL...

Yes, and he is growing into a strong player. People need to realize that only a few star players are needed to win. The rest is QB and Coaching.

[Derrick]

(09-05-2015, 04:51 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Actually they only have 2 big money contracts to worry about.

Green and Iloka.

After that its all small change 1 and 2 year contract guys.
Cant keep the same guys forever.

I think the Bengals handle contracts and wizardry of the cap about as well if not better than any other team in the NFL

Thanks, JJ. I was concerned because we hear so much about the huge number of FAs coming at end of this season. If I read you correctly, it is no big deal.

[jjvolt]

(09-06-2015, 02:36 PM)type_stripe Wrote: yup meant to type bjge, my apologies. You could say it was to "compliment" BJGE, but realistically if your primary back before Gio was trusted more for ball security than gaining solid yardage(averaged 3.9 yards in 2012, 3.4 in 2013, 6.4 yards per catch in 2012, 1.4 in 2013 vs. his only 5 career fumbles), it was an upgrade. Gio on the other hand since then has averaged (4.0 avg in 2013, 4.1 in 2014- even with Hill, plus 9.2 yards per catch in 2013, and 8.1 in 2014)). It wasnt to only compliment, Gio is here and BJGE isn't therefore its an upgrade. albeit part one of the two part Gio/Jeremy upgrade process. 

I know thats not what you only were saying, but looking through the posts you're talking about our bad returning ability (which is fairly decent) and how Lockett would be an upgrade we need. If you're talking about him as a WR, we have a large group of receiving threats, so wht would be the chances of seeing him much lining up with the ones? Eventually fisher should have a starting role, may not be immediate but he will. Can't say the same for Lockett. He'd still be behind AJ, MLJ, and Sanu. And since we don't line up with a slot receiver every down, idk how you can say Lockett would be seen more of (aside from KR/PR). 

Someone said that hue had a pkg of plays for alford. If we had lockett then by that logic hue would have a pkg of plays for him. I never said lockett was gonna be the number 2 wr, especially as a rookie. I think in time, he could have nice role in the offense to go along with his returns. Doesnt matter though, he dont play here.

[BengalChris]

(09-06-2015, 03:23 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I think the Bengals use their own formula to come up with their own BPA but also factor in need, depth, and future contracts. This is working well so far, so I think it's a + !

- The Bengals traded picks as recently as the 2014 draft for Bodine who is underwhelming so far.

- Think about this.... The Browns "win the draft" every year based on activity alone, but have outsmarted themselves immensely. WITHOUT their jockeying around the draft board you realize that right now on their roster they could have Julio Jones, Sammy Watkins, & Teddy Bridgewater.... among others? Pretty sure that long ago someone in the Browns FO burned an original copy of "The Catcher in the Rye" which has now put a conspiracy theory curse in their draft room.

There are a few instances both ways I can point to where the Bengals almost traded and didn't that are "whew!" or "dang it!" moments. I guarantee all teams have those. Tough to knock the Bengals for theirs when staying put has yielded such strong results, sin't it?

- I wish they would have used one of their 3rd rounders this year on Collins from LSU, but I get why they didn't.

- Bryant could have also turned out like Justin Blackmon - another talented but troubled kid from O(k)SU, too. Dallas has had to commit serious resources to help Dez and I don't know and don't blame the Bengals for not wanting the headache. At the time you never know. That draft I actually wanted Gronk, but he had back issues and surgeries that were red flags, too. Gresham was a bummer for me, but sometimes you swing and miss.

- Media projections are interesting and are fun to look back and talk about when analyzing this stuff. I look at guys like Marvin Jones who was projected as a 2nd or 3rd rounder and the Bengals got him in the 5th. If draft experts could look back in time, if he has a repeat of his 2013 season this year - after missing 2014 - he would project as a mid to late first rounder. Same thing with Geno Atkins. 4th rounder, but would be a top 5 pick in his draft class knowing what we know now.

That's why I look at the Bengals draft this year and think it's a home run all the way. They didn't NEED a WR at all. MLJ is a monster and AJ is top 5. Slot is handled by Eifert, who should be top shelf as well and I actually love that the Bengals went Patriots and shifted a guy like Burkhead into the slot. THAT kind of flexibility is what wins championships.

- The reason so many FAs are up this season is because it is one of the first ones since the new CBA which requires rookies to play out deals a certain length of time before extensions. The Bengals have a lot of players they have drafted still on the roster so they are in a weird spot. I don't see it as such a big deal as the older FAs are old enough to renegotiate for reasonable amounts and only one guy, Green, should be up for a block buster deal. Also, Leon Hall is taking up $10 freaking million dollars in cap space. After this season that will go a long way spread over several guys.

These are all good points. And, I agree the team didn't NEED a WR, not as much as a TE or future OT anyways. But our top 3 WR are free agents at end of this year. Could have made a case that we could use an upgrade at KR. But in the 2nd round is high unless he can become an excellent receiver.

We do trade sometimes, but not usually. Nothing like some teams do. There is a reluctance to trade up or down.

I'm not knocking how the Bengals draft. They've done much better than most teams as you mentioned. But when most people think of BPA they think, best player available despite position. And that's just not how it's done.

Yeah, the Collins from LSU thing sucked. We would have drafted him with our #1 pick if he had picked his girlfriends better.

The Browns haven't drafted well since they returned from the dead. Little, Trent Richardson, Johnny drunk, all the QBs they've taken. LOL

[CJD]

My recommendation is to get over it.

[PDub80]

(09-07-2015, 12:29 PM)BengalChris Wrote: These are all good points. And, I agree the team didn't NEED a WR, not as much as a TE or future OT anyways. But our top 3 WR are free agents at end of this year. Could have made a case that we could use an upgrade at KR. But in the 2nd round is high unless he can become an excellent receiver.

We do trade sometimes, but not usually. Nothing like some teams do. There is a reluctance to trade up or down.

I'm not knocking how the Bengals draft. They've done much better than most teams as you mentioned. But when most people think of BPA they think, best player available despite position. And that's just not how it's done.

Yeah, the Collins from LSU thing sucked. We would have drafted him with our #1 pick if he had picked his girlfriends better.

The Browns haven't drafted well since they returned from the dead. Little, Trent Richardson, Johnny drunk, all the QBs they've taken. LOL

- I actually blame the new CBA and the time frame of which the Bengals took those WRs as to why their deals are all up at once. It's a weird situation to be sure.

- The Bengals are stingy negotiators to be sure. Refusing the Saints entire franchise so they could get Ricky Williams and instead choosing to select Akili Smith is still just amazing to me.

- The trading up could make a lot of sense, especially now when the higher picks are so much cheaper. But, the Bengals seem to value a continual fountain of youth.

- I think the Bengals grade BPA based on a lot of factors other than just raw talent. WOuld really love to be a fly on the wall in those meetings leading up to the draft.

[Bryan]

(09-06-2015, 04:42 PM)jjvolt Wrote: Doesnt matter though, he dont play here.

Exactly, so get the **** over it.

[jjvolt]

(09-08-2015, 03:29 AM)Bryan Wrote: Exactly, so get the **** over it.

Aren't you the little internet tough guy...

[CJD]

(09-08-2015, 03:57 AM)jjvolt Wrote: Aren't you the little internet tough guy...

an internet tough guy is typically someone who says stuff like "If we met in real life, I'd beat you up." etc etc.

All Bryan was saying was to stop bitching about something that is now no longer a possibility.

It is a very reasonable request.

[StripesNTN]

I thought we were taking Fisher in the first, so to me taking him in the second is solid, and leads to future tackle depth/starters.

[StripesNTN]

Taking linemen (either side) or DB early is what every team should do as often as possible. We have and it has worked out.

[Luvnit2]

(09-08-2015, 01:44 PM)StripesNTN Wrote: Taking linemen (either side) or DB early is what every team should do as often as possible. We have and it has worked out.

It is a smart tactic as the most expensive veteran re-signs or FA buys of all pro or very good players are:

QB
CB
OT
DE/DT

So, it helps them manage the cap and keep a solid roster. The FO has been one of the best on both counts since the 2011 CBA was signed.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-08-2015, 01:44 PM)StripesNTN Wrote: Taking linemen (either side) or DB early is what every team should do as often as possible. We have and it has worked out.

You know it brother.

(09-08-2015, 03:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is a smart tactic as the most expensive veteran re-signs or FA buys of all pro or very good players are:

QB
CB
OT
DE/DT

So, it helps them manage the cap and keep a solid roster. The FO has been one of the best on both counts since the 2011 CBA was signed.

Yessirreee bob.