Done with Daltin

[KillerGoose]

I agree. I love Andy, I think he is a great guy and a fine QB.

However, a “fine” QB isn’t going to cut it, AT LEAST not with the talent that this team currently has. The window for this team has closed, and he is not the future. It’s time to seriously explore other options.

[muskiesfan]

(11-25-2018, 07:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I agree. I love Andy, I think he is a great guy and a fine QB.

However, a “fine” QB isn’t going to cut it, AT LEAST not with the talent that this team currently has. The window for this team has closed, and he is not the future. It’s time to seriously explore other options.

While I'm quoting you, this isn't directed at you. Our fans severely overvalue the talent on this team all of the time. AJ Green is the only top talent offensive player we have. Boyd has came along very nicely and Mixon looks like he could be a stud. However, Boyd is not a number one, he's not filling in for AJ. Ross is a ***** joke. Then we always have to make sure Gio gets his time. I like Gio and he has some talent, but we need to feed Mixon. There's no reason Mixon isn't getting 20 carries every game.

Someone will throw out Eifert who has played less than half the games in his career. Yes, talented when healthy but he's not a reliable contributor. Marvin Jones was solid, but he left.

After the names I've mentioned, I honestly don't know where all of this amazing talent has been. There are plenty of QBs in the league that our fans wish they had that are surrounded by much better talent than Dalton. However, those other QBs are never talked about poorly because of their supporting casts.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-25-2018, 07:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who’s Kanta? Sounds like a samurai.

He not only led the Bengals fiercely but also drove around in a van and fought crime with this guy.

[J24]

(11-25-2018, 08:04 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: While I'm quoting you, this isn't directed at you. Our fans severely overvalue the talent on this team all of the time. AJ Green is the only top talent offensive player we have. Boyd has came along very nicely and Mixon looks like he could be a stud. However, Boyd is not a number one, he's not filling in for AJ. Ross is a ***** joke. Then we always have to make sure Gio gets his time. I like Gio and he has some talent, but we need to feed Mixon. There's no reason Mixon isn't getting 20 carries every game.

Someone will throw out Eifert who has played less than half the games in his career. Yes, talented when healthy but he's not a reliable contributor. Marvin Jones was solid, but he left.

After the names I've mentioned, I honestly don't know where all of this amazing talent has been. There are plenty of QBs in the league that our fans wish they had that are surrounded by much better talent than Dalton. However, those other QBs are never talked about poorly because of their supporting casts.

Agreed especially on the offensive line.
 I would argue Boyd and Mixon are better than what you think. Also think that's Ross is a good ( not worth a top 10 pick though) player. 

[jj22]

I'll always admire Dalton for coming in after the lockout with no training camp as a 2nd round pick etc, and doing what he did for as many years as he did, but it's time to tear it down and start over. We need a Browns like rebuild, but no one in the FO is smart enough to pull it off (trading our vets, stockpile picks).

No one goes until Marvin does however. Then we can trade anyone from Dalton on down and start from square one. We are 5 years away, along with another culture change.

[muskiesfan]

(11-25-2018, 08:11 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Agreed especially on the offensive line.
 I would argue Boyd and Mixon are better than what you think. Also think that's Ross is a good ( not worth a top 10 pick though) player. 

I'm actually pretty high on both, especially Mixon. That's why I said he needs 20+ carries a game. Mixon should be the main back, featured back, whatever you want to call it. No other back should see the field unless Mixon needs a breather. I think Boyd is a top end #2 WR. I don't see him ever being a #1. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think it's there. He's still young though, so we shall see.

[J24]

(11-25-2018, 08:16 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm actually pretty high on both, especially Mixon. That's why I said he needs 20+ carries a game. Mixon should be the main back, featured back, whatever you want to call it. No other back should see the field unless Mixon needs a breather. I think Boyd is a top end #2 WR. I don't see him ever being a #1. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think it's there. He's still young though, so we shall see.

I think Boyd can be #1 if he has multiple Wrs and TE who are good but I agree he will never be a #1 like AJ. I would like to see what Mixon could do with an legit Offensive line.

[TKUHL]

(11-25-2018, 07:28 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: How about we actually put good players around him instead of getting rid of him and creating yet another off season need.

This ^ This is the problem. Andy has had all the talent a QB could ask for around him, what's that get us? A slightly consistent QB. We've even had enough talent to overcome some piss poor coaching but it's all caught up with this team. Half the QB's and coaches in the league would have had at least a playoff win with the talent we had over the years. Stop with the excuses, and stop being afraid of the 90's cause we're already there.

[BengalChris]

(11-25-2018, 07:01 PM)car91 Wrote: Andy has no heart. He needs to go. He is the perfect reflection on the Bengals ownership. Good when there is no oressure. Folds when things get tight. The perfect qb for Mike Brown.

I figured out a long time ago that Dalton ain't the solution at QB.

However, the team came out unprepared, flat, confused and out coached once again. Today's game was a big game because the Browns wanted to show the world that they aren't the same ol' Browns any more and the Bengals desperately needed a win today to have any chance of that 6th playoff seed.

This was a typical Marv big game experience today. I blame the coaches, Mike Brown, etc. Of course, Dalton didn't lead the team either. Driskel played better though, just not better enough to win the game.

[muskiesfan]

(11-25-2018, 08:28 PM)TKUHL Wrote: This ^ This is the problem. Andy has had all the talent a QB could ask for around him, what's that get us? A slightly consistent QB. We've even had enough talent to overcome some piss poor coaching but it's all caught up with this team. Half the QB's and coaches in the league would have had at least a playoff win with the talent we had over the years. Stop with the excuses, and stop being afraid of the 90's cause we're already there.

Who is this talent you speak of? I must have missed it. Joe Mixon is the best RB Dalton has had. Could you honestly say with a straight face that he's had a top talent RB in his career? As for receivers, he's had Green and Boyd is coming along nicely. Marvin Jones was good, but for 2 seasons in Cincinnati. Eifert produced the 40% of the time he played, but that's far from reliable production. I'm not trying to be a dick but I honestly don't see where Dalton has been surrounded by "all the talent a QB could ask for". With little effort it's easy to rattle off a few QBs who are surrounded by much better talent.

As for starting over, that's fine. Let's do it. Trade Dalton, don't just cut him. Don't bench him either because it would hurt his trade value. Trade some of the other favorites as well and be truly prepared to gut it out while Mike Brown leads a rebuild. Geno or Dunlap have to go, Burfict, Dalton, Bernard, maybe Green. We'd need the extra picks and there's not a ton of other players other than what I listed that would bring back those picks.

[Lawless_1]

(11-25-2018, 07:36 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: While this is a fine idea, I believe there would be potential trade partners as opposed to just cutting bait. All of this depends on Mike Brown's willingness to trade and not holding out for multiple first round picks or something crazy. I'd rather get something back for Dalton is we move on then just cut him.

I doubt he has much trade value. I'm pretty sure if the Bengals can come to the conclusion Dalton is not the one then pretty much every other team will view him that way.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Trade Andy Dalton and Vontaze Burfict to Oakland for Reggie Nelson, Jordy Nelson, and AJ McCarron. Paulie G will love Vontaze and Jon Gruden has had a man-crush on Dalton.

[muskiesfan]

(11-25-2018, 08:37 PM)Lawless_1 Wrote: I doubt he has much trade value. I'm pretty sure if the Bengals can come to the conclusion Dalton is not the one then pretty much every other team will view him that way.

Even if he brought a 4th round pick, is that not better than simply cutting him and getting nothing in return?

[*bfine32*]

(11-25-2018, 08:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Trade Andy Dalton and Vontaze Burfict to Oakland for Reggie Nelson, Jordy Nelson, and AJ McCarron.  Paulie G will love Vontaze and Jay Gruden has had a man-crush on Dalton.

You've got the wrong Gruden, but depending on how Alex recovers Was may be some one to trade with in the off season. 

I think a hot FA/affordable QB this off season will be the Teddy Bridgewater. I'd be for giving him a shot if we cut ties

[BengalsRocker]

(11-25-2018, 08:37 PM)Lawless_1 Wrote: I doubt he has much trade value. I'm pretty sure if the Bengals can come to the conclusion Dalton is not the one then pretty much every other team will view him that way.

False.

Dalton would have value.  Not handfuls of top picks...  but they would be able to get something of good value in trade.

[BengalChris]

(11-25-2018, 07:28 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: How about we actually put good players around him instead of getting rid of him and creating yet another off season need.

Dalton has had plenty of talent around him. It is true that the talent the last few years hasn't been as good as it was, but Dalton couldn't get it done when the talent was there.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-25-2018, 08:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Trade Andy Dalton and Vontaze Burfict to Oakland for Reggie Nelson, Jordy Nelson, and AJ McCarron.  Paulie G will love Vontaze and Jon Gruden has had a man-crush on Dalton.

Nope.

AJ - Injury prone
Jordy - Injury prone past prime
Reggie - Shell of his former self

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-25-2018, 09:03 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Nope.

AJ - Injury prone
Jordy - Injury prone past prime
Reggie - Shell of his former self

You have a better suggestion?

[Foolishpride]

(11-25-2018, 07:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who’s Kanta? Sounds like a samurai.

He preceded Carson Plummer.  

[Lawless_1]

(11-25-2018, 09:00 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: False.

Dalton would have value.  Not handfuls of top picks...  but they would be able to get something of good value in trade.

People on Twitter are wanting to trade him as a franchise QB. He's not. He would be valued as a stop gap QB used to groom a young guy. Maybe New Orleans, San Diego, the Giants or........ the........ Steelers would take him if their aging QB hung it up.