Qb situation, sorry dalton die hards

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-27-2018, 11:19 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I think at this point we just need to start over with a new QB and a new head coach, and I’m not a Andy hater either. Im just over this Lewis/Dalton era.


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Im with you,but i dont trust brown getting a better cosch its going to be hue if any we all know it,its already even been leaked

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2018, 11:12 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I disagree theres a lot on here and a lot out there,i think its about 50/50 split on dalton in our fanbase and the dalton lovers are hard core with the same list of excuses. People wanted mccaron to fail seriously, hes the closest to come to a playoff win and dalton lovers loved it when he was shipped out of here and gloated when he didnt get no chance,they say he got cut which isnt really what happened he got injured ,but that doesnt fit their narrative on the guy. They are glad to say he aint a starter. Its truley a split battle within our own fanbase over dalton.im sick of it. Ive rooted for the guy but i want to win. 

Palmer was the best talent we had,going against top defenses and our only real shot at a superbowl,he got hurt by the cheats and then bad management. Palmer was a top 3 qb. Dalton isnt and never will be. 

And once again like i said ownership will not get better, coaching will not get better,our only hope his a more talented qb then what we have. Or we are going to be in ground hogs day every damn year. 

I agree with a lot of what you say....and have a lot on here. Where I'll disagree with you here, is that coaching is a lot bigger impact in football than people realize.  I think this team would have to be loaded in a few position groups with All Pro talent to overcome the bumbling staff. 

My point about Palmer was, he flamed out here, flamed out in Oakland, and got good coaching in ARZ and was one game shy of a super bowl. Fans here said the same things about him they now say about Dalton. "He'll never win a playoff game"..."look at his numbers"...."he chokes in Primetime". 

I think Dalton could right the postseason ship with good coaching that coaches to a team's strengths, versus shoving octagonal pegs into triangle holes.

I don't think Mediocre Merv becomes an overnight success with what folks see as the prototype QB. He had that once, and failed. Miserably.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2018, 11:14 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah thats who i mentioned at the end, hes a good prospect. My favorite is the stache guy so far though. 

I love Mike Leach, and I like watching Menshew....but I think he's a developmental prospect at the next level.

[*Nately120*]

Dalton is here for another year, so we may as well just get used to it. I'd like to see him spend 2019 and onward in Jacksonville or something, but i just don't see Mike Brown making the effort to move Dalton unless someone offers something absurd for him.

And yea, I'm going to pull for Dalton to do well if/when he goes somewhere else, so you can preemptively kiss my arse for that.

[muskiesfan]

Fans really do blow me away. People are happy that Dalton is injured just so someone else can be the QB. If you say anything positive about Dalton, you're a "lover" and all this other stupid and petty bullshit because you're intelligent enough to understand there are many other issues and simply changing the QB doesn't right the ship.

That's not to say that changing the QB shouldn't be done, but to be happy that the starting QB is injured is really shitty to me. To be happy about a player's injury on "your" team is just ridiculous. I should come to expect nothing less. People hoped he would get injured because of McCarron and these same fans made posts where they wished death upon Rey Maualuga on these very boards.

Andy Dalton is a better QB than a lot of people want to give him credit for. He has shown he can play well, especially when he has had coaches that have helped him. He's a good QB and good enough to win with. Some of what fans fail to realize is that they severely overvalue the talent that this team has. From Jerome Simpson to Armon Binns to Ryan Whalen now to Auden Tate and many others, we've had the next Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, and insert HOF WR name here, but they never performed to these lofty expectations. No one looks back and admits they were wrong about how talented Binns was, it's simply "Dalton sucks" and they crown the next late round nobody as the next Jerry Rice. However, when you point this out, you're instantly part of "Andy's Army" a "Dalton lover" and "football ignorant" because it couldn't possibly be they were wrong about the talent level, it was simply Dalton's fault the entire time.

When the Bengals do move on from Dalton, I expect he will go elsewhere and perform well. He'll probably win a playoff game before the Bengals do. He deserves it. He's a great person, a good QB, and gets treated poorly by at least half the fan base.

I'm sure the OP will lash out with childish names at me because I won't throw Dalton under the bus as the only reason for this team's woes. Though I will be cheering on Driskel and hoping he performs well because he is now the starting QB for my team.

[*Nately120*]

(11-27-2018, 11:46 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Fans really do blow me away. People are happy that Dalton is injured just so someone else can be the QB. If you say anything positive about Dalton, you're a "lover" and all this other stupid and petty bullshit because you're intelligent enough to understand there are many other issues and simply changing the QB doesn't right the ship.

That's not to say that changing the QB shouldn't be done, but to be happy that the starting QB is injured is really shitty to me. To be happy about a player's injury on "your" team is just ridiculous. I should come to expect nothing less. People hoped he would get injured because of McCarron and these same fans made posts where they wished death upon Rey Maualuga on these very boards.

Andy Dalton is a better QB than a lot of people want to give him credit for. He has shown he can play well, especially when he has had coaches that have helped him. He's a good QB and good enough to win with. Some of what fans fail to realize is that they severely overvalue the talent that this team has. From Jerome Simpson to Armon Binns to Ryan Whalen now to Auden Tate and many others, we've had the next Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, and insert HOF WR name here, but they never performed to these lofty expectations. No one looks back and admits they were wrong about how talented Binns was, it's simply "Dalton sucks" and they crown the next late round nobody as the next Jerry Rice. However, when you point this out, you're instantly part of "Andy's Army" a "Dalton lover" and "football ignorant" because it couldn't possibly be they were wrong about the talent level, it was simply Dalton's fault the entire time.

When the Bengals do move on from Dalton, I expect he will go elsewhere and perform well. He'll probably win a playoff game before the Bengals do. He deserves it. He's a great person, a good QB, and gets treated poorly by at least half the fan base.

I'm sure the OP will lash out with childish names at me because I won't throw Dalton under the bus as the only reason for this team's woes. Though I will be cheering on Driskel and hoping he performs well because he is now the starting QB for my team.

Yep, that's just par for the course.  I've lived in Steeler country most of my life, and there were people I knew who were calling for Ben to be benched for Leftwich during the year they won the SB.  Hell, one of the oldest pictures of me is from 1982 and I'm wearing a Steelers onesie as a 0 year old because my ol' man was a Steelers fan from the 50s until he finally got fed up with Steeler fans for cheering when Bradshaw got injured and his career ended.

Basically, I'm telling you that even winning the SB doesn't protect a QB from people wanting to see what the next guy can do.  As a fanbase we are pretty good with valuing our QBs, rather we think of WR bench is full of studs despite all evidence to the contrary.  People wanted Leftwich for Ben and Cliff Stoudt for Bradshaw even when they were winning SB's.

Side note, one of my school yard chums years later was the nephew of one of Bradshaw's backups.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2018, 11:46 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Fans really do blow me away. People are happy that Dalton is injured just so someone else can be the QB. If you say anything positive about Dalton, you're a "lover" and all this other stupid and petty bullshit because you're intelligent enough to understand there are many other issues and simply changing the QB doesn't right the ship.

That's not to say that changing the QB shouldn't be done, but to be happy that the starting QB is injured is really shitty to me. To be happy about a player's injury on "your" team is just ridiculous. I should come to expect nothing less. People hoped he would get injured because of McCarron and these same fans made posts where they wished death upon Rey Maualuga on these very boards.

Andy Dalton is a better QB than a lot of people want to give him credit for. He has shown he can play well, especially when he has had coaches that have helped him. He's a good QB and good enough to win with. Some of what fans fail to realize is that they severely overvalue the talent that this team has. From Jerome Simpson to Armon Binns to Ryan Whalen now to Auden Tate and many others, we've had the next Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, and insert HOF WR name here, but they never performed to these lofty expectations. No one looks back and admits they were wrong about how talented Binns was, it's simply "Dalton sucks" and they crown the next late round nobody as the next Jerry Rice. However, when you point this out, you're instantly part of "Andy's Army" a "Dalton lover" and "football ignorant" because it couldn't possibly be they were wrong about the talent level, it was simply Dalton's fault the entire time.

When the Bengals do move on from Dalton, I expect he will go elsewhere and perform well. He'll probably win a playoff game before the Bengals do. He deserves it. He's a great person, a good QB, and gets treated poorly by at least half the fan base.

I'm sure the OP will lash out with childish names at me because I won't throw Dalton under the bus as the only reason for this team's woes. Though I will be cheering on Driskel and hoping he performs well because he is now the starting QB for my team.

Absolutely no one here has claimed Dalton is this team’s only problem. The OP even mentioned ownership and coaching but is being realistic about those two things not changing for the better anytime soon.

[*Nately120*]

(11-27-2018, 12:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Absolutely no one here has claimed Dalton is the only reason this team’s only problem. The OP even mentioned ownership and coaching but is being realistic about those two things not changing for the better anytime soon.

I had a feeling the coaching here was an issue when the Palmer/Chad era Bengals could only make the playoffs when the no-huddle was a mainstay of the offense. Thing have changed for the better since then, but not enough.

[Luvnit2]

(11-27-2018, 09:29 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: We have fans that love dalton so much,they will never say we should move on and they will point to other holes every year. Fans really need to listen to joe goodberry and james rapien on twitter. Two of the smartest football guys ive listened too. They want to see the bengals win.

Think of it this way it starts from the top down, owner ,coaching, qb, then the rest of the team. Qb is so important to a football team it has its own catagory. Pay attention to the playoffs every year and you will see most the top qbs in the playoffs. Look at the top teams and look at them from top down and you will see for yourself. Now are we ever going to get better ownership? No weve seen the best ownership will do. Next will we ever get better coaching? Well everyone knows marvin can lose the rest and given a contract extension. So no coaching most likely is not getting better anytime soon. Is dalton that talented and good of a qb? The answer to me and half the fanbase is no atleast not consistently enough and what he needs to succeed is unsustainable here. So that is why i am very happy driskal is getting a chance.

Do i think Driskel is the franchise Qb im not saying he will be , but what i want is him to win and show that Dalton is replacable. That gets Daltons lovers bent out of shape,they will go to war over Dalton. But i really hope this happens, i even think fans of Dalton would not be happy if we won playoff games with driskel or Aj mccarron if it did happen,because they Fanboy/girl that hard over Dalton. Not me im a bengals team fan first. I loved Carson but i had to suck it up when people bashed him.and he didnt want to come back.

Lets look at Driskal, he started off at Florida in the Sec, he did really good his first year,and i seen florida fans saying he was their new tebow for a short time,till he broke his leg. The guy does have potential. He provides a running threat,and can extend a play with his legs. That should be a good thing for this offense. What i did read is he used to panic when his first read wasnt open in college, i havnt seen that really but thats what they said. I would love him to be a hidden gem and payback the 49ers at the same time for the 80s because they drafted the kid,with gabbert and kaepernick on the roster.

But.. i would not bank on him winning playoff games this year, but i think he can win games. If he can show he can play, id explore Dalton for trade bait. This frees up 16 million more for free agency. Id draft a Qb also i wouldnt settle, people say the draft isnt good,they say that every year even last year they said there was no andrew lucks.  I dont buy that,theres gems every year and youve got to try. There will be a few ,and one of my favorites i suggest looking up is the Stache from Washington State Gardner Minshew, he looks like a old school player, he can sling it,pretty spiral ,good pocket passer,looks like he has a fun personality i look for that too , next i suggest Dwayne Haskins , hes from ohio ,big guy hard to bring down ,beautiful spiral big arm, good mechanics,they say he is raw but i dont care get him here even if he has to sit. Theres also Herbert but wed probably have to trade up for him. Will grier looks ok to me but me personally he dont look like he has personality,or like hed be a star. There will be a couple other guys too i heard about a big qb last name jones too. Now the process starts Sunday. I need Driskal to win us some games.

Why are you calling out fans who may not agree with you.

We all want to win, AD has proven he can win, he has proven he can win games coming from behind in the 4th quarter. Is he elite? No, he is not but prior to being hurt on this roster, in my humble opinion was best option to win this year. Did we miss the boat not drafting Mahommes? Yes, in hindsight we did.

AD was 5-5 or 5 and 5.5 (each played about 50% of last game) and Driskell is 0 and .5.

So let's see how Driskell does the rest of 2018 keeping in mind both QB's don't play defense or OL. Then we can discuss at end of year and debate if Driskel is better than AD or if we need to look at better options for 2019 and beyond.

[*Synric*]

A little off topic but If they target an offensive player in round one I'm leaning toward a Tight End.

Albert Okwuegbunam, Misery erm I mean Missouri.

[*Nately120*]

(11-27-2018, 12:16 PM)Synric Wrote: A little off topic but If they target an offensive player in round one I'm leaning toward a Tight End.

Albert Okwuegbunam, Misery erm I mean Missouri.

Is he injured?  If he's injured we'll have a better chance of taking him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2018, 12:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Absolutely no one here has claimed Dalton is this team’s only problem. The OP even mentioned ownership and coaching but is being realistic about those two things not changing for the better anytime soon.

So, what's a QB gonna do then? Make them get good FAs and suddenly transfer Merv into a SB winner? 

[*Nately120*]

(11-27-2018, 12:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: So, what's a QB gonna do then? Make them get good FAs and suddenly transfer Merv into a SB winner? 

It's funny because the 2 franchise QBs we had before Dalton legitimately tried to force Mike Brown to give more of a crap about football.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2018, 12:22 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: So, what's a QB gonna do then? Make them get good FAs and suddenly transfer Merv into a SB winner? 

We’ve had a lot of success with an average (sometimes slightly above average) QB like Andy, maybe if we find an even better QB it’ll be enough to get us over the hump. Who knows. Super Bowl seems unthinkable, let’s worry about winning a single playoff game first. Lol

[Yojimbo]

(11-27-2018, 10:39 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: If you guys think goodberry is dumb and rapien then i dont value your opinions at all. Goodverry has been following sports and the bengals for years, knows formations,and watches the all 22 and they get paid to talk bengals. Why would i value your guys opinion over theirs especially when i definitely agree with them on mostly everything. And you just de valued all the qbs i mebtioned lol what a joke you are and did you know dalton was a 2nd rounder out of tcu,you act like he was a 1st rounder peyton manning. Who else have you de valued over the years? Mayfield,wentz, mahomes,and everybody else most likely. You guys are dalton lovers. You think hes the best thing since slice bread. What is it his nice guy christian image you love the most?

Your basis that they are good is you agree with them? Ok...

[Bengalfan4life27c]

from the limited amount of time ive seen him. more athletic than Dalton slightly better deep ball than Dalton. slower release than Dalton. Arm strength seems like a push. 1 of Dalton strengths is intermediate passing I would give the edge to Dalton as of now but I haven't seen enough of Driskel so I could change mind

[sandwedge]

(11-27-2018, 12:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ve had a lot of success with an average (sometimes slightly above average) QB like Andy, maybe if we find an even better QB it’ll be enough to get us over the hump. Who knows. Super Bowl seems unthinkable, let’s worry about winning a single playoff game first. Lol

How did you rate Palmer? I'm talking average, above or very good?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2018, 12:47 PM)sandwedge Wrote: How did you rate Palmer? I'm talking average, above or very good?

Very good.

Maybe we can find someone even better than Palmer, though? I don’t understand the hesitation to even try at this point. We’re going to miss the playoffs for a 3rd straight season, and we can’t change owners or make him hire a good coach. Upgrading at QB is something we can realistically do. If we miss on the pick, so be it.

[Bengalitis]

After reading some of the comments here on Bengals Board and this thread, I officially declare that the Bengals Board, just like the team, is imploding. :threadjack:

[*Nately120*]

(11-27-2018, 12:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Very good.

Maybe we can find someone even better than Palmer, though? I don’t understand the hesitation to even try at this point. We’re going to miss the playoffs for a 3rd straight season, and we can’t change owners or make him hire a good coach. Upgrading at QB is something we can realistically do. If we miss on the pick, so be it.

Palmer wasn't just a QB we grabbed for the hell of it, we had the #1 overall pick and used it.  We could have traded down and taken Leftwich, Boller, or Grossman if we just wanted a QB for the sake of changing things up.  Teams like the Giants who desperately need to take a QB and who are quite bad this year don't even know who will be at the top of the draft next season.

The odds of us finding an instant starter of a QB any time soon are slim.