Ohio State Haskins will be Great NFL QB

[Au165]

(12-28-2018, 06:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: In fairness, even casual draftniks knew EJ wasn't a good prospect and would get massively over drafted by a desperate team. 

McShay definitely plays the curve game, though.  He's had at least 1 QB in his Top 10 9 of the last 11 years, and at least one QB with an 89+ rating 10 of the last 11.

100% with you on hating McShay, though.  If Jameis Winston was a 97 rating and noodle armed Mark Sanchez was a 96, he should have Haskins in the 115-120 range.

But that’s the thing he thought those guys were that good. How good someone is coming out and their success can be mutually exclusive. Could Sanchez have been good in another organization without Rex Ryan? Probably. Could Jameis be good if he stayed out of trouble and stopped turning the ball over? Sure. All they can rate them on is what they see in college and how it projects. Sometimes dudes are playing at their ceilings other times they have just scratched their potential.

Drafting a QB more than any position in the NFL is a crap shot. Which is why I always laugh when guys want to move on from Dalton so quickly. Sure you could do better, or you could be the browns or jets spending two decades looking for your franchise QB.

[Au165]

(12-28-2018, 06:28 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm not sure which one you're talking about but it fits both Stidham and Jones.

...And I do think the Bengals will target a QB in the 3-5th rounds. In fact I believe Mason Rudolph would have been in stripes in the Steelers didn't trade up one pick ahead of the Bengals.

I was talking Stidham, I think Jones is a late riser in a weak class and sneaks into the late first or early 2nd.

[Whatever]

(12-28-2018, 06:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: But that’s the thing he thought those guys were that good. How good someone is coming out and their success can be mutually exclusive. Could Sanchez have been good in another organization without Rex Ryan? Probably. Could Jameis be good if he stayed out of trouble and stopped turning the ball over? Sure. All they can rate them on is what they see in college and how it projects. Sometimes dudes are playing at their ceilings other times they have just scratched their potential.

Drafting a QB more than any position in the NFL is a crap shot. Which is why I always laugh when guys want to move on from Dalton so quickly. Sure you could do better, or you could be the browns or jets spending two decades looking for your franchise QB.

Sanchez had arm strength questions in college.  He's also had numerous chances to redeem himself, but he just isn't that good.  He was overrated because of the talent around him at USC and he was following Palmer and Leinart out.  How Winston was a 97 with that horrible wind up delivery, bad footwork, and character concerns is beyond me.  Matt Ryan was a 98, and he was a very clean prospect with a + arm.

But you are right in that QB's are a total crapshoot.  If it was easy to evaluate them, teams wouldn't be struggling so badly to get them.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-02-2018, 06:40 PM)motoarch Wrote: He’ll be off the board before we pick.  Raiders will take him.

Do you think they would trade Derek Carr?  From a QB standpoint, Carr is a known and a leader.  I don't think I would make that move if I am Oakland.  But, I am not Oakland, or LA, or Las Vegas, or whatever the hell they are now, so who knows?

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-03-2018, 10:35 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe Haskins is going to be the exception to Ohio St. QB's NFL wise. But I think he needs another season to fully develop.

True.  He fits the NFL game much better than the college game.  

I think they will make a run at him, and let him sit for a year behind Dalton, a la Patrick Mahommes.  

Two things to consider:  The Bengals NEED to sell tickets, and the OSU fan base is enormous.  The best season Dalton has ever had was the year after they draft AJ McCarron (the year he was drafted, he was injured).  I don't think it was coincidence.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-04-2018, 01:27 PM)motoarch Wrote: Raiders, jags and giants sit ahead of us in the draft and all three need a qb.  So I really see no point in discussing this kid.  He won’t be on the board when we get up.  

Some will argue the raiders may or may not be in the market for qb but either way the giants and jags most certainly are.  So who do we like assuming the 2 best options are gone already?

Giants and Jags could have the same record as the Bengals after today(no idea the tie breaker)....Giants playing Cowboy team likely resting starters, but Jags playing a motivated Houston squad with a lot to play for.  Raiders will absolutely pick before Bengals but I don't see them letting go of Carr.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-20-2018, 08:28 AM)Jason_NC Wrote: Haskins destroyed the best defense in college football.

This.  Let's not forget this was his first season as a starter.  That will give teams pause in terms of drafting him.  Bengals have perfect scenario to learn under Dalton.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-21-2018, 12:33 AM)Whatever Wrote: He threw the ball 73 times against Purdue.  His YPA was only 6.4.  The only reason he had big raw yardage is he threw a ridiculous number of times.  Run game, defense or not, if we're talking Haskins as the first QB off the board and dumping Andy for him, he should be able to beat a 6-6 team with a crap defense with his arm, especially when he's throwing it 73 times and especially with the talent around him on offense.

Seriously, what is so great about Haskins?  He can beat teams IF he doesn't get too much pressure in the pocket, you can run the ball, his receivers turn 5 yard throws into 50 yard TD's, the receivers make circus catches, and the D plays well.  

Seriously?  If it is so easy, why didn't any other QB in the HISTORY OF THE BIG 10 do what he was able to do in his first year as a starter?  

Your screen name is dead on...

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-27-2018, 01:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: You just described the Rams offense with a stretch run and a deep crosser. The rams live on mesh concepts many off the stretch play action from a tight 11 and 12 personnel. They are actually proving that simplifying the offense and being really good at a couple concepts can make an offense really good.

I'll disagree, you see a lot of guys coming out of college that were only asked to read half a field Haskins was not. I'll take a guy who eats sacks early over turning the ball over, especially early on in their development. No doubt in my mind he'd be comfortable playing in a west coast offense day 1 as the carry over would be simple. A lot of Air Raid concepts are making their way into the NFL and you saw OSU incorporate some of that stuff in. Their scheme is actually a power run scheme with spread and air raid concepts. They attack laterally then use that as the misdirection for some of the combination shot plays they run. You can see that with a lot of the wheel routes they like to run with deep posts inside to beat cover 3. 

Go watch the Rams offense and what Goff did this year and tell me he isn't running a similar offense right now from a spread look. Rams prefer it from tight, but the sentiment stands he can be Jared Goff with the right scheme and coordinator.

Great post...and off-topic, but this is reason #45683229 that Marvin needs to be put out to pasture.  He is a black Jeff Fisher.  Plain and predictable.  Goff looked like a tremendous bust (#1 overall and started off third string?) but he has been outstanding under the new coaching staff.  That game against the Vikings early in the year....he was squeezing the ball in to the tiniest of openings (that's what she said).  

Regardless, Marv must go, and good example of using Goff as to how skills translate to the scheme....a la David Klingler, the biggest square peg/round hole ever drafted.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-27-2018, 04:29 PM)MentalRage Wrote: If you guys had to rank Haskins with the QBs who were drafted last year where would you put him?

As an NFL QB, I would place him right next to Mayfield and Darnold.  I was not so sure about Allen...has a big learning curve ahead of him.  And poor Rosen...that team is just so damn awful that it really isn't fair to judge him yet.  I think he will end up being the next Jared Goff...if he can survive concussion-wise until his team improves. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2018, 12:46 AM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly his struggles are kind of related to the injury to Kupp, people kind of discounted him as just a slot WR but undersell what he meant to the offense. His ability to take advantage of one on one match ups exposed a lot of teams inability to cover the middle of the field.

Bad pocket presence again is an overstatement relative to college QBs in general. He climbs a little prematurely at time but I wouldn’t call it poor. He played behind a bad o line and felt the effects of foot steps. He has stood in and taken plenty of hits while making accurate throws. This really seems like being overly critical and not really comparing to relatively to where other QBs come out at.

Like I said he will come out with a high 80’s grade similar to a Trubisky or Flacco. He will need a scheme fit, someone who wants to be ultra vertical won’t be a good fit but any west coast offense who have incorporated a lot of spread and air raid concepts would work well. He’d be a good fit in Washington but I doubt he goes that late.

Absolutely.  Remember Blaine Gabbert?  NFL GMs will relish the fact that Haskins could read a defense and go through progressions.  It wasn't simply a one-read, toss or run type system.  That was my biggest reservation with Mayfield, but I give the (douche) kid credit as he has obviously worked his ass off to understand their system.  I though Darnold and Rosen were the most pro-ready, but their teams are so awful it is hard to judge.

The Jets have actually started to look decent on offense, and I think with a new coach and a few more pieces, they could be a dark horse next year. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2018, 09:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Kupp played in 8 games and had 6 TD's thats pretty good production from your slot WR. He was on pace for a 12 TD 1100 yard season, I'd say missing that from your #3 option was a big loss. 

Haskins will be a top 16 pick which is why this whole thing is funny, you talking about QB's past the 1st round etc. He will be nitpicked of course but my point is you really aren't comparing him to what guys were coming out. You seem to have a weird expectation of them being pro ready when they come in. That has happened maybe once in the last 10 years and that was Luck. Even as great as Mahomes has been this year he had to sit behind Smith for a year and has a tailor made system around him that, as you knocked the Rams and Goff for, has seemed to be figured out a bit as of late.

Lol Peyton type, you are correct he is not a generational QB who is possibly the greatest football mind in history. I'm going to simply leave it at, I disagree wholeheartedly with much of the stuff you have typed. I guess we will see, my hunch though is the NFL teams and scouts agree with me more than you.

This is pretty much why I see the possibility of him ending up with the Bengals.  Teams will be very cautious of a one year starter.  Yes, Trubisky has done well with that formula, but he is an outlier.  

I hope it happens, and I am a huge fan of Dalton.  I just see the next 10 years being a lot more fun with Haskins.  

[motoarch]

(12-30-2018, 09:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Do you think they would trade Derek Carr?  From a QB standpoint, Carr is a known and a leader.  I don't think I would make that move if I am Oakland.  But, I am not Oakland, or LA, or Las Vegas, or whatever the hell they are now, so who knows?

I have no way of really knowing. All these talking heads seem to think Gruden will move on from him based on his previous track record. He may not but it’s worth considering. Also they got ride of cooper and Mack so I wouldn’t count anything out.

(12-30-2018, 09:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Giants and Jags could have the same record as the Bengals after today(no idea the tie breaker)....Giants playing Cowboy team likely resting starters, but Jags playing a motivated Houston squad with a lot to play for.  Raiders will absolutely pick before Bengals but I don't see them letting go of Carr.

At time I made that statement I didn’t know we would finish the season 1-8 after a 5-2 start and was at the time a reasonable assessment. Obviously given where we are now and the fact that a lot of info is coming out of NY that Eli may be getting another year it is not.

In hindsight these were not correct on my part but at the time they were fair and reasonable I feel.

[Jpoore]

(12-30-2018, 09:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  Let's not forget this was his first season as a starter.  That will give teams pause in terms of drafting him.  Bengals have perfect scenario to learn under Dalton.  

Disagree. Didn't stop trubisky from going what was it 3?

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-30-2018, 11:48 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Disagree. Didn't stop trubisky from going what was it 3?

He was 2 actually, and Mahommes was 10th....see what I mean?