Does Having Coaches Scout Hurt Gameplanning?

[THE PISTONS]

So we know that we have a small scouting staff, and the coaches do a lot of the scouting.

We've all saw stories of guys like McVay for the Rams to puts in insane amounts of hours of gameplanning a week.

The college football season is during the NFL season, so presumably the Bengals are watching college games on Saturdays and maybe Thursdays.

Is it possible to gameplan at a high level AND scout?

[jj22]

I don't know if it hurts game planning. Having barely any scouts does hurt during these lost seasons because we can't seem to find any gems on other teams practice squads so we end up with retreads like Andre Smith and Lengel etc. because those are the players our coaches know.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-04-2018, 11:14 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't know if it hurts game planning. Having barely any scouts does hurt during these lost seasons because we can't seem to find any gems on other teams practice squads so we end up with retreads like Andre Smith and Lengel etc. because those are the players our coaches know.

Well...scouts also are used in gameplanning as they scout opposing teams play.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

We already know that it is not possible to game plan at a high level with crappy coaches, regardless of scouting.

[Whatever]

(12-04-2018, 11:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we know that we have a small scouting staff, and the coaches do a lot of the scouting.

We've all saw stories of guys like McVay for the Rams to puts in insane amounts of hours of gameplanning a week.

The college football season is during the NFL season, so presumably the Bengals are watching college games on Saturdays and maybe Thursdays.

Is it possible to gameplan at a high level AND scout?

Through the miracle of technology, it is possible to now watch game film of top college prospects after the season.  This allows coaches to focus on gameplanning during the season.  The scouts are working on this stuff during the year.

[kevin]

I've always said Ownership CHEAPNESS and lack of scouts hurts Bengals. They were so cheap, they use to go by that Cincinnati Drugstore Guys List. What in the heck does a guy working in a Cincy Drugstore know ? Anything cheap. OK, they hired a couple scouts, but they still miss out on scouting college players. Our drafts show they are penny cheap and dollar foolish. We are getting some real duds in the draft. Bengals are losing money not having scouts, not saving money. Now the seats are empty, and scouts could have prevented that. All the way around Bengals aren't saving money, they are losing money not having a full NFL scouting department. MIKE BROWN is the losing constant.

Classic lack of scouting was listening to Cincy Drugstore guy and turning down Ditka trade. We could have had all Saints picks plus Saints #1 picks next two drafts just to give Ditka our #1. No, we took Akili Smith and then in camp found out his mechanics were awful. Scouting would have told us this. That was the biggest gaff Bengals ever made due to no scouts. They will never get a deal like Ditka offered again. Cleveland showing that many picks help turn a team around fast. Look at all the players Bengals have been drafting only to find out they were injured in college and can't play. Kirkpatrick, Ogbuehi, Ross and more. Scouts would know of these injuries. The Bengals Owners are losing money, not saving money. Scouts save you money.

So, right now all NFL teams are scouting college players, have been all season, will be all over the bowl games. Not our Bengals. Bengals don't know any more than the average fan who buys a draft magazine, and there in lies the problem.
'

[bengalhoel]

(12-04-2018, 11:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we know that we have a small scouting staff, and the coaches do a lot of the scouting.

We've all saw stories of guys like McVay for the Rams to puts in insane amounts of hours of gameplanning a week.

The college football season is during the NFL season, so presumably the Bengals are watching college games on Saturdays and maybe Thursdays.

Is it possible to gameplan at a high level AND scout?

I think keeping our staff from game planning has probably kept us semi competitive this whole Marvin tenure.  Look what happens every time we have a bye or any time off. We look like we have never played before.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-04-2018, 11:54 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: We already know that it is not possible to game plan at a high level with crappy coaches, regardless of scouting.

^This^

Merv looks at game planning like half time adjustments.

[Devils Advocate]

I know that several coaches in the past have insisted on having control of a team. If this isn’t it, or most of it, I don’t know what is. In that sense maybe Cincinnati isn’t such a bad place to be a head coach.

I honestly don’t believe it hurts in game planning for the most part, unless scouting during the season excessively consumes time.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-04-2018, 12:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: Through the miracle of technology, it is possible to now watch game film of top college prospects after the season.  This allows coaches to focus on gameplanning during the season.  The scouts are working on this stuff during the year.

But, then does that hinder scouting? Other teams have scouts working the entire year on scouting. The Bengals would essentially be working a fraction of that time.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-04-2018, 12:55 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I know that several coaches in the past have insisted on having control of a team. If this isn’t it, or most of it, I don’t know what is. In that sense maybe Cincinnati isn’t such a bad place to be a head coach.

I honestly don’t believe it hurts in game planning for the most part, unless scouting during the season excessively consumes time.

For the Coaches that were GM...I can't really name many where it worked out long-term. I mean some had great seasons, but the success generally isn't sustained.

I think you create conflicts like you decide to play your guy that you drafted over another guy that might be outperforming him to justify the draft pick.

[bengalhoel]

(12-04-2018, 01:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: For the Coaches that were GM...I can't really name many where it worked out long-term. I mean some had great seasons, but the success generally isn't sustained.

I think you create conflicts like you decide to play your guy that you drafted over another guy that might be outperforming him to justify the draft pick.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. If Marvin brings guys in to fit his system, and his system sucks ass the players are probably not going to be that great either.

[SunsetBengal]

I don't know the answer to the OP's question, but I do know this much. If you're focusing on one thing, you certainly aren't doing the other.

[HarleyDog]

I don’t think coaches should scout period simply because if they push to sign a guy whos not quite what they hoped for when drafted, coaches may feel pressured to continue using them when a better player sits the bench in an attempt to save face. Coaches should focus on putting the best players on the field and not be biased. I think Marvin play players based on his memory of how good they once were, failing to see the real product in its current state.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

There is always an interaction between coaches and scouts, scouts need to know what kind of player (skill set) they are looking for to fit the coaches system.

Again, this should all be driven by the GM - hire the HC who hires the assistants and all agree on the systems they will run and the type of players they need to make the system work. Then the scouts can bring forward these types of players and they can be evaluated.

This team still has no true identity so how can they draft specific skill sets?

[BengalChris]

(12-04-2018, 11:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we know that we have a small scouting staff, and the coaches do a lot of the scouting.

We've all saw stories of guys like McVay for the Rams to puts in insane amounts of hours of gameplanning a week.

The college football season is during the NFL season, so presumably the Bengals are watching college games on Saturdays and maybe Thursdays.

Is it possible to gameplan at a high level AND scout?

Having a dinky scouting department hurts scouting.

[Whatever]

(12-04-2018, 01:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, then does that hinder scouting? Other teams have scouts working the entire year on scouting. The Bengals would essentially be working a fraction of that time.

I would like to see the Bengals add more scouts, particularly ones focused on current NFL players.  That said, I don't think the coaches doing scouting has any impact on the game plan.