Steelers vs Saints

[6andcounting]

(12-24-2018, 05:38 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Why don't you give credit to Tomlin for developing the Talent???

Because Tomlin is measured by post season success and not his players' fantasy points

If his strengths (player development) can't over come his weaknesses, who really cares about what it is he does well.

[Beaker]

(12-24-2018, 02:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: We see the Steelers as a team of immense talent that gets lead astray by coaching.

Seems to be a prolific feeling in this division.

[BengalYankee]

(12-24-2018, 09:48 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Because Tomlin is measured by post season success and not his players' fantasy points

If his strengths (player development) can't over come his weaknesses, who really cares about what it is he does well.

Then I guess you do the same for Cowher who in 15 seasons won only 1 NFL Championship[in his 14th] compared to Tomlin. 

[BengalYankee]

(12-24-2018, 09:48 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Because Tomlin is measured by post season success and not his players' fantasy points

If his strengths (player development) can't over come his weaknesses, who really cares about what it is he does well.

Your first sentence was about immense talent, yet when I ask you about Tomlin developing that talent you switch to post season success???

Stick with an issue, if you state your team has immense talent, which it does, that starts with coaching and development.


Your argument is weak. What is a proper analogy would be a Farmer who cultivates his crops and livestock, thus has outstanding vegetables, eggs, chicken, beef etc., but can't put it together and cook a lick. That is what you have in Tomlin a great farmer, but a lousy cook.  

    

[6andcounting]

(12-25-2018, 01:51 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Your first sentence was about immense talent, yet when I ask you about Tomlin developing that talent you switch to post season success???

Stick with an issue, if you state your team has immense talent, which it does, that starts with coaching and development.


Your argument is weak. What is a proper analogy would be a Farmer who cultivates his crops and livestock, thus has outstanding vegetables, eggs, chicken, beef etc., but can't put it together and cook a lick. That is what you have in Tomlin a great farmer, but a lousy cook.  

    

Everyone agrees Tomlin is great at developing talent. It's not leading to the type of success it should because none of his other weakness have approved in the past decade. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but it seems like your trying to disagree with me on something we agree on.

[GMDino]

(12-24-2018, 05:38 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Why don't you give credit to Tomlin for developing the Talent???

Did he though?

Or was it the draft?

I don't know how much say Tomlin has in that. I "hear" a lot about his input...but I also "hear" that he has a lot of input in the defense too...well at least when they play well.  lol.

Tomlin didn't develop the D that was here his first few years and he had D. LeBeau.

He didn't develop Ben either.

I give him credit for not being so bad that the team couldn't win at all with that much talent...but I agree with the notion that even if he DID had a hand in the development his inability to use that talent to get to the next level consistently has been disheartening at best and awful at worst.

[The Real Deal]

I guess the question is, if they sneak into the playoffs, make a run and win the super bowl this year, does it change your perception of Omar? Or will the players get all the credit?

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 10:03 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: I guess the question is, if they sneak into the playoffs, make a run and win the super bowl this year, does it change your perception of Omar? Or will the players get all the credit?

The players never get "all" the credit.  Team wins, team loses.

Tomlin has his faults just like the players do.

If they make a run it will be because they overcame the flaws that they have had all season (and many of them for multiple seasons).

[BengalYankee]

(12-25-2018, 11:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did he though?

Or was it the draft?

I don't know how much say Tomlin has in that. I "hear" a lot about his input...but I also "hear" that he has a lot of input in the defense too...well at least when they play well.  lol.

Tomlin didn't develop the D that was here his first few years and he had D. LeBeau.

He didn't develop Ben either.

I give him credit for not being so bad that the team couldn't win at all with that much talent...but I agree with the notion that even if he DID had a hand in the development his inability to use that talent to get to the next level consistently has been disheartening at best and awful at worst.

If you say it was the draft rather then development then you can't honestly say D. LeBeau developed the Defense.
Again stick with an issue.
Again, if it is draft, draft, draft for Tomlin, then it's draft, draft, draft for D. LeBeau.

Ben has better stats with Tomlin then with Cowher. Ben has been to the SB twice with Tomlin and only once with Cowher.

By the way who developed Ben? Was it Cowher?

Why is it, if it is the Defense or Ben then they were developed, but when I stated Tomlin developed the talent like Bell and Brown or the Offensive line it's because of the draft????

I get it, if it's a talented team with Tomlin then it's because of the draft otherwise they were developed. 

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 11:55 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: If you say it was the draft rather then development then you can't honestly say D. LeBeau developed the Defense.
Again stick with an issue.
Again, if it is draft, draft, draft for Tomlin, then it's draft, draft, draft for D. LeBeau.

Ben has better stats with Tomlin then with Cowher. Ben has been to the SB twice with Tomlin and only once with Cowher.

By the way who developed Ben? Was it Cowher?

Why is it, if it is the Defense or Ben then they were developed, but when I stated Tomlin developed the talent like Bell and Brown or the Offensive line it's because of the draft????

I get it, if it's a talented team with Tomlin then it's because of the draft otherwise they were developed. 

You're all over the place here.

Ben, AB, Troy, Bell...all extremely talented.  Doesn't take great coaching.

I asked if Tomlin had anything to do with drafting them.  Do you think Tomlin, who was a defensive coach, is really helping "develop" Ben?  Or AB?

Tomlin didn't have to develop (or care) about the defense when he had LeBeau there.  LeBeau knew how to coach the defense.  

The O-line stepped up under Munchak.  Do we have to give Tomlin credit for that because he was there when Munchak was hired?

It is a team with talented players.  Tomlin is not a great coach.  He is coach who has managed to not completely lose with great players.  A better coach would have developed other, complimentary, players that would have taken the great ones over the top rather than rely on the naturally talented ones to carry him.