Driskel should be starter next year

[Shake n Blake]

(12-17-2018, 11:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: I would say Green , Brown and Beckham are the best at making circus catches although I don't have the stats.  

Green is tall with a length, can high point balls and make insane adjustments to bad balls. That's is strictly observations. Why are observations not valid. Do I have to bring up video of Green making circus catches on deep balls. 

 Go get it from PFF if they have which wide receivers make the best adjustments to balls. I don't have that stat.

Hard to argue something so subjective that obviously doesn't have any stats or facts behind it.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall that many times where AJ really had to pull an otherworldly Beckham catch to bail Andy out. 

I think people exaggerate that just a bit. He's tall with a big catch radius and that helps any QB who has a WR like that, but circus catches? I don't see a lot of those. At least not enough to act like Dalton would be crap without AJ.

(12-18-2018, 01:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Unless you’re KC...

And yeah yeah Smith is 3 years older. Still doesn’t change that fact that hey had a pretty decent QB, but wanted to upgrade. Seems to have worked out too.

1. Yeah lets just nab the next Mahomes. I'm 100% cool with taking a 1st round QB, but cherry picking the cream of the crop is kinda silly. The odds of us getting a generational talent are like 1/1000. 

2. We don't have Andy Reid. Peep Alex Smith's stats from last year (104.7 rating) and compare them to this year (85.7 rating). Coaching and scheme is a HUGE deal. Unless that QB talent comes with a good offensive minded coach, it might go to waste in Cincy.

3. KC was already a fantastic team. Aside from great coaching, they have a ton of talent. Put Mahomes behind this line with this coaching, and you're not getting 5000 yard, 50 TD Mahomes. More likely that we're going to take an inferior prospect, put him in an inferior situation and get predictably bad results. 

-------

If we take a QB, we'd better (a) trade Merv and crew for some brilliant young offensive minds and (b) splurge money and picks to fix this o-line and LB corp.

(12-18-2018, 02:05 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Look. You can't argue with his rock-solid reasoning. Dalton won't play into his late 30s because he's a QB that sits in the pocket and doesn't take many hits and has only been injured twice when he wrenched his thumb against a couple big dudes that he came into contact with. 

AJ Green will play into his late 30s because he's a WR that gets hit a hell of a lot more than a QB does and he will have missed 13 games in the last 3 seasons due to injuries.

Don't you know that QBs rarely play into their late 30s while WRs do it regularly? 

Lol exactly. #Logic

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 02:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2. We don't have Andy Reid. Peep Alex Smith's stats from last year (104.7 rating) and compare them to this year (85.7 rating). Coaching and scheme is a HUGE deal. Unless that QB talent comes with a good offensive minded coach, it might go to waste in Cincy.

3. KC was already a fantastic team. Aside from great coaching, they have a ton of talent. Put Mahomes behind this line with this coaching, and you're not getting 5000 yard, 50 TD Mahomes. More likely that we're going to take an inferior prospect, put him in an inferior situation and get predictably bad results. 

-------

Exactly !
With our brain trust calling the shots, no offensive line, no creativity or innovation on offense, it would cut into Mahomes production a bunch.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-17-2018, 06:25 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: All pro is better but even then it has bias built in.  Our offensive line during Daltons first 5 years was as good or better than the Steelers. Obviously right now it's much worse. 

This is his only argument that holds water; Pitt had a POS line until 2015 (they were better run blocking almost every year, while we were better pass blocking and on the whole), when it started to turn a corner and it eclipsed ours in 2016.

(12-17-2018, 07:38 PM)Synric Wrote: AJ Green makes spectacular catches but that isn't every ball thrown to him more often than not they are on target and into tight windows because AJ gets a lot and I mean a lot of double teams.

You are trying to tell everyone how inaccurate Dalton  is and tell us Driskel is better in the same breath.
As truck says...Just Stop.

Why thank you

I had to write that today for the first time in a while

[Atomic Orange]

(12-18-2018, 02:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: This is his only argument that holds water; Pitt had a POS line until 2015 (they were better run blocking almost every year, while we were better pass blocking and on the whole), when it started to turn a corner and it eclipsed ours in 2016.

That quick release though..i think made the line look better than it actually was. It was obviously better then it is now but a GREAT line would also produce great rushing results.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-18-2018, 02:42 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: That quick release though..i think made the line look better than it actually was. It was obviously better then it is now but a GREAT line would also produce great rushing results.

Can't remember what, but the release was deemed irrelevant.

I think what deemed it as such, was that the top 5 fast-release QBs (Andy was second behind Manning from 2012-2014/5 or something like that) all had absolutely god-awful pressure numbers for their olineman, while we were stout and great in the number department.

The run blocking was bottom 12 for half of those seasons; only year everything clicked well was 2014, the year when everyone and their mother got hurt at the end of the season.

EDIT: Did want to say too, Stoolers really did have an AWFUL line; Beachum got better, but sucked at first, Gilbert still sucks (but doesn't get flagged anymore) and Pouncey has been the most overrated olineman in the league, since he came in (until Ryan Clady retired).

Then you have Foster, who's been the biggest POS, yet had manned the LG position for this entire decade and DeCastro, who's probably the best of the bunch, who was not really that good at all, until 2016 as well.

Of course, they also get penalised very little, which makes them get away with everything and their flaws seem less-obvious.

[Atomic Orange]

(12-18-2018, 02:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Can't remember what, but the release was deemed irrelevant.

I think what deemed it as such, was that the top 5 fast-release QBs (Andy was second behind Manning from 2012-2014/5 or something like that) all had absolutely god-awful pressure numbers for their olineman, while we were stout and great in the number department.

The run blocking was bottom 12 for half of those seasons; only year everything clicked well was 2014, the year when everyone and their mother got hurt at the end of the season.

EDIT: Did want to say too, Stoolers really did have an AWFUL line; Beachum got better, but sucked at first, Gilbert still sucks (but doesn't get flagged anymore) and Pouncey has been the most overrated olineman in the league, since he came in (until Ryan Clady retired).

Then you have Foster, who's been the biggest POS, yet had manned the LG position for this entire decade and DeCastro, who's probably the best of the bunch, who was not really that good at all, until 2016 as well.

Of course, they also get penalised very little, which makes them get away with everything and their flaws seem less-obvious.

The thing is when they went to run blocking as the focal point they usually did a very good job of it. I just remember saying "they can do one or the other well, but never both in the same game" a lot on here. Which again, was probably a coaching problem.

But yeah for sure it would be great to have Whit and Zeitler out there!

[WhoDeyandtheBlowFish]

I haven't been on the board in a while.  I see we have went from START MCCARRON to START DRISKELL!!!! Eh?

[The Caped Crusader]

(12-18-2018, 04:19 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: I haven't been on the board in a while.  I see we have went from START MCCARRON to START DRISKELL!!!! Eh?

Yep. 

AJM is a better QB and he's what, second, third on the depth chart of a 3-11 team? 

[WhoDeyandtheBlowFish]

(12-18-2018, 04:39 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Yep. 

AJM is a better QB and he's what, second, third on the depth chart of a 3-11 team? 

Yep. Absolutely laughable. Im open to drafting a qb but thinking Jeff Driskell is a better qb, or has the potential to be, a better qb than Andy is downright delusional. I'd like to see what the core of this team could do with a competent coaching staff before blowing it up

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

[The Caped Crusader]

(12-18-2018, 04:55 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: Yep. Absolutely laughable. Im open to drafting a qb but thinking Jeff Driskell is a better qb, or has the potential to be, a better qb than Andy is downright delusional. I'd like to see what the core of this team could do with a competent coaching staff before blowing it up

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

I agree entirely. I'd love to have one season with a new coaching staff and at least half the team not on IR before we start trading away pieces. 

[KillerGoose]

(12-18-2018, 01:57 PM)Fullrock Wrote: You people who continue to support Dalton (a QB that ranks somewhere between 15-20 in the league) crack me up when you have made the decision how terrible Driskel is after 3 starts. If you know ANYTHING about football, you know it takes time for QB's to develop. Let me remind you that your beloved "Average Andy" threw for less than 200 yards in 10 out of 17 games in his rookie year.

Jared Goff had a stellar 71.2 passer rating and threw 5 TD's and 7 picks in his first 7 starts for the Rams. Good thing they didn't write him off as "terrible" huh? Hall of Famer Peyton Manning threw 28 picks his first season. The list can go on and on. It takes time to develop a QB people. This is the kid's first regular season action. You cannot replicate the speed of the game in practice or in the preseason when you are playing against people who don't make rosters.

Driskel has good size, runs a 4.5 40, has good arm strength, and is by all accounts an intelligent kid. Has he missed some throws? Of course. Has he made some impressive throws into tight windows? Yes. He was working with a severely short-handed deck Sunday after Boyd went out. John Ross was the No. 1 receiver at that point. That would have been a tough thing for the 8 year veteran Dalton, let alone a kid making his 3rd start.

As is so predictable, this coaching staff has tried to fit a QB who brings a different skill set to the equation into an offense designed for a different type of player at the position (Dalton). I have no idea what Driskel can develop into, and neither does anyone else at this point. Maybe he IS terrible. Maybe he isn't. What I do know is the tools are there. Again, we have seen Dalton for 8 years and know EXACTLY what he is. Good enough to win some games and bad enough to lose some games. At the end of the day you get average. Average hasn't been good enough to win a playoff game for 8 years. At what point do you move on?

This team has so many holes. They will be the worst team in the division next year. May as well see if you can develop the tools of Driskel into something in an offense designed to take advantage of his tools. What's the difference between 4 and 6 wins? As currently constructed, I can't see this team winning more than 6 games next year with Dalton under center.

It’s not so much supporting/defending Dalton as much as pointing out that Driskel, flat out, isn’t good. He will very likely never be good. All of the QBs you pointed out such as Manning, Goff and even Dalton were all very good QBs in college. Manning is probably the greatest prospect of all time and started in a much different era, passing wise. Despite the 28 picks, people KNEW he was going to be good. There was very little question after his first season.

Goff is a good example due to his slow start, but again, he was a legitimately good prospect and good QB in college.

Driskel, flat out sucked in college. He did nothing of note until he transferred to play lower competition and despite his 4.5 speed, was never much of a running threat.

So, we have a guy who was not good in college. He has been in the league for three years and done nothing. He finally gets the opportunity to start and he isn’t good. It’s quite obvious that he just isn’t very good, and that’s what we are getting at.

[Fullrock]

(12-18-2018, 05:35 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It’s not so much supporting/defending Dalton as much as pointing out that Driskel, flat out, isn’t good. He will very likely never be good. All of the QBs you pointed out such as Manning, Goff and even Dalton were all very good QBs in college. Manning is probably the greatest prospect of all time and started in a much different era, passing wise. Despite the 28 picks, people KNEW he was going to be good. There was very little question after his first season.

Goff is a good example due to his slow start, but again, he was a legitimately good prospect and good QB in college.

Driskel, flat out sucked in college. He did nothing of note until he transferred to play lower competition and despite his 4.5 speed, was never much of a running threat.

So, we have a guy who was not good in college. He has been in the league for three years and done nothing. He finally gets the opportunity to start and he isn’t good. It’s quite obvious that he just isn’t very good, and that’s what we are getting at.

He did nothing of note, except help lead Florida to an 11-2 record and Sugar Bowl appearance in 2012. Admittedly, he didn't appear to be the same guy when he came back from the broken leg he suffered early in 2013.

But let's not confuse playing against SEC defenses with playing against PAC-12 defenses. That's a night and day difference.  Goff certainly put up prolific numbers on a bad CAL team where he had to throw the ball a ton with them trailing frequently in games. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-18-2018, 08:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: 2013 against SD he was wide open to bring the game back within a score and he dropped the ball.

Shit happens. It just seems to always happen under Merv.

(12-18-2018, 12:41 PM)sandwedge Wrote: In the SD playoff game, didn't he drop a perfectly thrown ball in the EZ???  I guess Dalton is the only QB that has ever thrown a bad ball....

FTR, i wasn't bashing Dalton. I was adding to a list that was posted. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-18-2018, 08:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: Didn't you say earlier in this thread that media types were biased against the Bengals? I guess not when it comes to the QB? 

We get it mullsy....you hate the QB.

Ahhhhhhhhh. Good ole mulligan. The memories...

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 04:55 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: Yep. Absolutely laughable. Im open to drafting a qb but thinking Jeff Driskell is a better qb, or has the potential to be, a better qb than Andy is downright delusional. I'd like to see what the core of this team could do with a competent coaching staff before blowing it up

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

(12-18-2018, 05:08 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I agree entirely. I'd love to have one season with a new coaching staff and at least half the team not on IR before we start trading away pieces. 

Count me in

[KillerGoose]

(12-18-2018, 06:18 PM)Fullrock Wrote: He did nothing of note, except help lead Florida to an 11-2 record and Sugar Bowl appearance in 2012. Admittedly, he didn't appear to be the same guy when he came back from the broken leg he suffered early in 2013.

But let's not confuse playing against SEC defenses with playing against PAC-12 defenses. That's a night and day difference.  Goff certainly put up prolific numbers on a bad CAL team where he had to throw the ball a ton with them trailing frequently in games. 

He threw for 1600 yards, only threw for 12 TDs and ran for 4 TDs. I mean, I guess he was the QB for that team, so he should get some props but he was very disappointing during his time there. He simply was not a good college QB, which is what leads everyone to the conclusion here. He’s three years into his NFL career and he still does not look good.

The answer is that he isn’t good. His athleticism doesn’t translate like you would hope and he has many of the same struggles he had as a passer in college.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 06:49 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: He threw for 1600 yards, only threw for 12 TDs and ran for 4 TDs. I mean, I guess he was the QB for that team, so he should get some props but he was very disappointing during his time there. He simply was not a good college QB, which is what leads everyone to the conclusion here. He’s three years into his NFL career and he still does not look good.

The answer is that he isn’t good. His athleticism doesn’t translate like you would hope and he has many of the same struggles he had as a passer in college.

Agreed,

Driskel is a very, very average at best QB and that's me being nice. 

[sandwedge]

(12-18-2018, 05:08 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I agree entirely. I'd love to have one season with a new coaching staff and at least half the team not on IR before we start trading away pieces. 

I agree with you.

[Whatever]

(12-18-2018, 06:51 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agreed,

Driskel is a very, very average at best QB and that's me being nice. 

He's a mediocre backup.  Good enough to beat garbage teams, but that's it.  

I would understand the OP more if Driskel was was throwing for 300+ yards, multiple TD's, etc., etc., every week, but he's been average to bad.

He's always had accuracy issues.  That's why he didn't latch on in San Francisco.  He just doesn't seem like a natural passer.  He got picked off early when he short armed that post to Ross and overcompensated by overthrowing everyone the rest of the game.

[The Caped Crusader]

I'm all for supporting Driskel. Mainly because I want to win. The kid hasn't looked good. I had no idea about his college career and that, along with his three years of no play time, draft position and change in college, further cements the fact that he is just a career back up.

Driskel was fourth on the depth chart with the team he was drafted with too, by the way.

50 TDs 28 INTS in 42 games isn't impressive at the college level.