Marvin's record against winning team, plus a bitter pill

[HarleyDog]

(12-18-2018, 11:39 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: ....and for Joe Mixon to run rough shod all over their punk asses like they have us so many times. I want personal fouls on olinemen. Geno Atkins to put Pig Pens head on a spear. Erickson to run a kick back for a TD. A blocked kick. Driskel for 500 yds and 50 more on the ground. John Ross to finally go off.


Hey.....a man can dream. But wouldn't that be nice?

All this would be awesome. Someone’s head needs to pop off like a dandelion or a “rock em’ sock em’ robot.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-19-2018, 01:01 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Outside of the Steelers, Marvin is 35-60-2 against teams with winning records.

WITH the Steelers included, Marvin is 37-79-2 against teams with winning records.

And this is EXCLUDING playoff losses. Or else Marvin would be 35-65-2 (w/o Steelers), or 37-86-2 if you include the Steelers.

That means Marvin is 2-19 against the Steelers when they have a winning record. Or 2-21 if you include playoffs.
An abysmal .095
Or .087 if you include playoffs

Marvin's percentage is .371 against teams with winning records throughout 16 years.
Or .322 if you include the Steelers.

Include playoffs?
.353 without Steelers.
.304 with the Steelers.

I've looked at his record against playoff bound teams in a given season and it's just as pathetic ! He gets beat like a drum by all the better teams on a regular basis, and has for 16 seasons.

But who knows maybe next season will be the year ? 

[HuDey]

(12-19-2018, 01:01 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Outside of the Steelers, Marvin is 35-60-2 against teams with winning records.

WITH the Steelers included, Marvin is 37-79-2 against teams with winning records.

And this is EXCLUDING playoff losses. Or else Marvin would be 35-65-2 (w/o Steelers), or 37-86-2 if you include the Steelers.

That means Marvin is 2-19 against the Steelers when they have a winning record. Or 2-21 if you include playoffs.
An abysmal .095
Or .087 if you include playoffs

Marvin's percentage is .371 against teams with winning records throughout 16 years.
Or .322 if you include the Steelers.

Include playoffs?
.353 without Steelers.
.304 with the Steelers.

For the sake of clarity, are these winning records at the time we played them or are these teams who ended the season with winning records?

[XenoMorph]

(12-18-2018, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that most of us have always known that Marvin is a pretty good coach, and that he always seems to falter in our rivalry games.  Kind of goes the same for the Playoff and Monday Night games, as well.

maybe he still works for Pittsburgh. lol

[Pat5775]

(12-18-2018, 10:26 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Marv is below average at best and totally overrated as a defensive guru. Those mid 90's Steelers LBs could have coached themselves they were so good, same for the Ravens D. Marv is like a really, really poor man's Phil Jackson, but with 1/13th the success. And most of Marv's success here has come when he's had good coordinators to lean on.

Bingo.

Marv is far from what anyone should consider to be a “good coach”. He seems far more interested in blame shifting his lackadaisical approach to coaching up players as they just “need to do a better job”. It’s their football team, they need to find a way to fix it

Marvin doesnt get it. He doesn’t know how to coach up players. He doesn’t understand in-game adjustments are a real thing. He’ll go into prevent mode as soon as he has a lead. His team lacks basic tackling fundamentals. They’ re completely undisciplined. They’re mentally weak.

All of these point to a bad coach. Sure, he has won plenty of games. But there’s much more that goes into someone being a good/bad coach than just wins and losses (especially when it really counts... nothing like seeing 16 years worth of Marvs players fold like cheap lawn chairs in big games)

[Pat5775]

(12-19-2018, 11:25 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: maybe he still works for Pittsburgh. lol

Based on what we’ve seen and how we’ve lost against them, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Marv was/is a Pittsburgh double agent

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-19-2018, 11:38 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Bingo.

Marv is far from what anyone should consider to be a “good coach”. He seems far more interested in blame shifting his lackadaisical approach to coaching up players as they just “need to do a better job”. It’s their football team, they need to find a way to fix it

Marvin doesnt get it. He doesn’t know how to coach up players. He doesn’t understand in-game adjustments are a real thing. He’ll go into prevent mode as soon as he has a lead. His team lacks basic tackling fundamentals. They’ re completely undisciplined. They’re mentally weak.

All of these point to a bad coach. Sure, he has won plenty of games. But there’s much more that goes into someone being a good/bad coach than just wins and losses (especially when it really counts... nothing like seeing 16 years worth of Marvs players fold like cheap lawn chairs in big games)

I think way more often than not when this team achieves victory it's in spite of the coaching, not because of it.

But agree overall

[bengalhoel]

(12-18-2018, 11:39 PM)Wyche Wrote: ....and for Joe Mixon to run rough shod all over their punk asses like they have us so many times. I want personal fouls on olinemen. Geno Atkins to put Pig Pens head on a spear. Erickson to run a kick back for a TD. A blocked kick. Driskel for 500 yds and 50 more on the ground. John Ross to finally go off.


Hey.....a man can dream. But wouldn't that be nice?

That would be amazing!!

but.... History is not on our side , to say the least.

The last time we beat the Steelers by more than 10 points... 19 freaking 95!!  27-9.

The worst defeat the Bengals have ever put down in the Marvin Lewis era was a 20-10 freaking shelacking of the Steelers in 2013.. On a Monday night no less!!!! 

Oh, BTW  The Steelers have beat us 12 times by more than 10 in that stretch, including 3 times by 3 TDs or more.

[Bengalitis]

(12-18-2018, 08:41 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: Another fun totally irrelevant fact: Mike Tomlin has NEVER had a losing season thanks in part to two virtually guaranteed over the Bengals every year!

4 if you count the browns. They only need to win 6 other games to get in the playoffs.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-19-2018, 01:43 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: 4 if you count the browns. They only need to win 6 other games to get in the playoffs.

They couldn’t beat the Browns both times this season. We’re the only guaranteed W now.

[TKUHL]

Just shows how bad we need a coach that can win in the AFCN specifically against Pitt. Numbers have a funny way of spinning Marvin's legacy here. I know at one time and still may be, he had an outstanding record against NFC teams. But in the end the 0-7 playoff record trumps everything.

[PV Bengal]

(12-19-2018, 01:43 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: 4 if you count the browns. They only need to win 6 other games to get in the playoffs.

Kinda like the Pats. Their division is so weak that they are virtually assured of a 5-1 or 6-0 record before the season begins.

If you're assured of a 5-1 division record (like the Squealers and the Pats are), if you split the rest of the 10 games, the worst you can do in a season is 10-6. But since 5 of the remaining 10 games are at home and you go 4-1 in those games (like you should) and 3-2 on the road, you're 12-4.

[fredtoast]

(12-19-2018, 10:11 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've looked at his record against playoff bound teams in a given season and it's just as pathetic ! He gets beat like a drum by all the better teams on a regular basis, and has for 16 seasons.

It is not a pathetic record. He is in the top half of the league in wins and winning percentage aganist playoff teams.

His record needs to improve but you cant call it pathetic when it is better than most of the other teams.

[Bengalholic]

(12-20-2018, 04:12 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Just shows how bad we need a coach that can win in the AFCN specifically against Pitt. Numbers have a funny way of spinning Marvin's legacy here. I know at one time and still may be, he had an outstanding record against NFC teams. But in the end the 0-7 playoff record trumps everything.

Yeah, he's 37-24-3 against the NFC, but just 94-103 versus the AFC (counting PO's).

During his tenure, he ranks 8th in the AFC in wins. Against the top 5 most consistent AFC teams during his time here (total wins, PO's appearances, etc) he is just 34-59. Against the middle 5 teams, he is 22-22. Against the bottom 5, he is 38-22.

So basically, versus the NFC and bottom 5 AFC teams: 75-46-3
Against the other 10 AFC teams, including playoff games: 56-81

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-20-2018, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not a pathetic record. He is in the top half of the league in wins and winning percentage aganist playoff teams.

His record needs to improve but you cant call it pathetic when it is better than most of the other teams.

One wrong answer:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Season-by-Season-breakdown-of-ML-vs-Playoff-Teams

[TheUberHuber]

(12-20-2018, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not a pathetic record. He is in the top half of the league in wins and winning percentage aganist playoff teams.

His record needs to improve but you cant call it pathetic when it is better than most of the other teams.

He has the worst record in certain categories such as sunday night football... playoff wins etc.

Please show us another coach you think is good with comparable stats that has 

A - been coaching for almost 17 years

B- is rocking a solid potato on Sunday night footbal and the playoffs.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-18-2018, 07:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since Marvin took over as head coach only 4 teams in the league have more wins against teams that finished with a winning record (NE, DEN, PITT, IND).  But since only two teams have played more games against teams with winning records his winning percentage is just 12th best.  I'd say that is still a lot higher than many people would think.  But here is the bad part.

Bengals have 38 wins against winning teams other than Steelers.
Steelers have 38 wins against winning teams other than Bengals.

Bengals have 4 wins against Steelers when they finished with a winning record.
Steelers have 19 wins against Bengals when they finished with a winning record.

What's the actual winning percentage? Like 42%?

[THE PISTONS]

Regular season generally hasn't been the issue with Marvin.

It's playoff failures.

If you don't care about playoff wins, he's a good coach. If you care about playoff wins, he's a terrible coach. If you care about making the playoffs he's an above average to good coach.

Losing 7 playoff games is pretty inconceivable. You'd think we'd win 1 by luck alone.