Why did it take so long?

[TheBengalsMind]

Those, talking about the Bengals faithful, who have managed to make it through a Cincinnati Bengals game this season have noticed something off with this defense.

With the hiring of Teryl Austin our defense has ran a lot more zone coverage this year. We have seen it affect our CB's, our linebackers and even our star rookie last year Carl Lawson.

All of a sudden we weren't bringing Carl Lawson off the edge and leaving our CB's in man-to-man coverage. We would instead bring Lawson to drop back Atkins into a zone defense.

This last game against the Chargers we played our defense in a lot of man-to-man coverage and William Jackson responded by playing his best game all season and it isn’t a surprise.

Here’s what Sam Hubbard had to say: “We were playing a lot of man-to-man. Be fundamentally sound. Don’t cheat looking in the backfield and that was how the game went. Eye discipline. I think our secondary played really well and gave us a chance to get after the quarterback.”

The fact that Teryl Austin was fired isn't surprising, as our guys weren't responding to it well.

The fact that it took this long to change back…is very disturbing if your a Bengals fan.

William Jackson III according to PFF earned a season-high 86.5 overall grade against LAC on Sunday, as he allowed 2 receptions for 9 yards from 5 targets on the day.

This was the Jackson we saw last year.

In fact, if we have Dalton we win that game.

Because he settles down our entire offense when he's in. You can clearly see that in the way the offensive line plays without him.

Our offense lineman have had there fair share of mistakes and they even put the nail in the coffin for the season when Price got Dalton killed.

But the uptick in penalties on our offense line, since Dalton has been hurt, has been stark.

That's not to say Jeff has been bad, I think he's done good with all things considered.

But Dalton wins that game.

But back to the point.

Why did it take so long to go back to last years defensive formula?

[HarleyDog]

Another thread I thought I would open to read Marvin was canned, but was again let down.

Anyway, it’s a good question. If Austin’s strategies were bad enough to be canned, his game plan should have been changed immediately. Although, Marvin didn’t want to change the plan and continued with what wasn’t working. That alone tells me football has surpassed him and he’s not the aggressive DC he once was when he first got here. Zim probably felt sorry for him and called him up to help him save that sliver of legacy that remains.

[*bengalfan74*]

Sticking with things way to long that don't work and are ineffective is the norm around Bengals land. A few cases in point:

Paul Alexander
Bob Bratkowski
Eric Ghiaciuc
Dennis Roland
Michael Johnson
Margus Hunt
Ken Zampese
Russell Bodine
Cedric Ogbuehi
Alex Redmond
Hardy Nickerson jr.

Very partial list off the top of my head but don't forget the creme de la creme himself - Marvin Lewis

But to answer your question - Mike Brown

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-12-2018, 07:56 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: Those, talking about the Bengals faithful, who have managed to make it through a Cincinnati Bengals game this season have noticed something off with this defense.

With the hiring of Teryl Austin our defense has ran a lot more zone coverage this year. We have seen it affect our CB's, our linebackers and even our star rookie last year Carl Lawson.

All of a sudden we weren't bringing Carl Lawson off the edge and leaving our CB's in man-to-man coverage. We would instead bring Lawson to drop back Atkins into a zone defense.

This last game against the Chargers we played our defense in a lot of man-to-man coverage and William Jackson responded by playing his best game all season and it isn’t a surprise.

Here’s what Sam Hubbard had to say: “We were playing a lot of man-to-man. Be fundamentally sound. Don’t cheat looking in the backfield and that was how the game went. Eye discipline. I think our secondary played really well and gave us a chance to get after the quarterback.”

The fact that Teryl Austin was fired isn't surprising, as our guys weren't responding to it well.

The fact that it took this long to change back…is very disturbing if your a Bengals fan.

William Jackson III according to PFF earned a season-high 86.5 overall grade against LAC on Sunday, as he allowed 2 receptions for 9 yards from 5 targets on the day.

This was the Jackson we saw last year.

In fact, if we have Dalton we win that game.

Because he settles down our entire offense when he's in. You can clearly see that in the way the offensive line plays without him.

Our offense lineman have had there fair share of mistakes and they even put the nail in the coffin for the season when Price got Dalton killed.

But the uptick in penalties on our offense line, since Dalton has been hurt, has been stark.

That's not to say Jeff has been bad, I think he's done good with all things considered.

But Dalton wins that game.

But back to the point.

Why did it take so long to go back to last years defensive formula?

Absolutely.  As far as it taking time to get the formula right, that is my #1 criticism with Marv.  Even bigger than game management.  Their adjustments, or lack thereof, drive me crazy.  Not only in-game, but through the season.  They are predictable beyond belief and it almost seems like a laziness in terms of their effort to improve things.

In the military, there is an old saying:  "Hope is not a strategy".  My father beat (not literally) saying in to my psyche.  You need to be the agent of change.  So many times, Marv just goes along hoping for his team to suddenly be able to tackle, and so on.  His game plan, on defense especially, is to rarely blitz and have a lot of bodies drop in to coverage.  They hope for QBs to make mistakes.  There simply isn't the dearth of talent at QB as there was a few years ago.  Unless it is some moron like Jameis Winston, QBs don't overthrow wide open receivers and end up getting picked off by a DB that is 5 yards behind the play.  They don't force the issue.  They get nickel and dimed all day long and waste the talent they have in the back end by not playing more man with an additional pass rusher.  We always hear how they are going to be aggressive and blitz more but it never happens.  Not only is it stupid but painfully boring to watch.  

I love this team, but I hate the way this team, as it is currently constructed, plays the game.  

[XenoMorph]

I would say it took marvin a few weeks(hes rusty after 16 yearS) to get the defense back on track but they are looking much better now.

[J24]

Nick Vigil is the key to this Defense because he is the only LB capable of covering his guy one on one.

[Bengalitis]

(12-12-2018, 10:53 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: I would say it took marvin a few weeks(hes rusty after 16 yearS) to get the defense back on track but they are looking much better now.

Marving finally did the right thing  and came to Bengals Board to figure out what was going wrong with his defense, he is finally turning the ship because of it.

[Bengalitis]

(12-12-2018, 11:07 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Nick Vigil is the key to this Defense because he is the only LB capable of covering his guy one on one.

^^^^^ this.   He even replaced Burfict as the leader of this team on Defense.

[Catmandude123]

TheBe



In fact, if we have Dalton we win that game

Dalton may have won the game but he's as unpredictable as your wife opening your anniversary gift.

[Bengalitis]

(12-12-2018, 11:19 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: TheBe



In fact, if we have Dalton we win that game

Dalton may have won the game but he's as unpredictable as your wife opening your anniversary gift.

That was a very egregious comment but funny nonetheless.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-12-2018, 07:56 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: Those, talking about the Bengals faithful, who have managed to make it through a Cincinnati Bengals game this season have noticed something off with this defense.

With the hiring of Teryl Austin our defense has ran a lot more zone coverage this year. We have seen it affect our CB's, our linebackers and even our star rookie last year Carl Lawson.

All of a sudden we weren't bringing Carl Lawson off the edge and leaving our CB's in man-to-man coverage. We would instead bring Lawson to drop back Atkins into a zone defense.

This last game against the Chargers we played our defense in a lot of man-to-man coverage and William Jackson responded by playing his best game all season and it isn’t a surprise.

Here’s what Sam Hubbard had to say: “We were playing a lot of man-to-man. Be fundamentally sound. Don’t cheat looking in the backfield and that was how the game went. Eye discipline. I think our secondary played really well and gave us a chance to get after the quarterback.”

The fact that Teryl Austin was fired isn't surprising, as our guys weren't responding to it well.

The fact that it took this long to change back…is very disturbing if your a Bengals fan.

William Jackson III according to PFF earned a season-high 86.5 overall grade against LAC on Sunday, as he allowed 2 receptions for 9 yards from 5 targets on the day.

This was the Jackson we saw last year.

In fact, if we have Dalton we win that game.

Because he settles down our entire offense when he's in. You can clearly see that in the way the offensive line plays without him.

Our offense lineman have had there fair share of mistakes and they even put the nail in the coffin for the season when Price got Dalton killed.

But the uptick in penalties on our offense line, since Dalton has been hurt, has been stark.

That's not to say Jeff has been bad, I think he's done good with all things considered.

But Dalton wins that game.

But back to the point.

Why did it take so long to go back to last years defensive formula?

I always thought WJ3 and Dennard were better suited for man coverage, and Dennard specifically for press man coverage.
When it comes to the LBs though, I don't think they quite have the coverage ability to play man coverage, they have to stick to a zone. Unfortunately, even that didn't work.
I never bothered to research Austin's defensive scheme when he was in Detroit, all I remember is they created turnovers (fantasy football points!), but if he always operated in the scheme we saw when he was in Cincinnati, it probably was never going to work because the Bengals don't have the personnel for that.

To be honest, I was surprised Kevin Coyle wasn't promoted to DC after Guenther left last year. He wasn't the best DC ever but he did have the following defensive rankings in Miami when he was DC there...
2012 - 19.8 PPG (7th)
2013 - 20.9 PPG (8th)
2014 - 23.3 PPG (20th)
2015 - Coyle was let go by interim HC Dan Campbell in early October.

I would have happily had Coyle over Austin, as Coyle never had the worst defense in the NFL in both yardage and points per game.

[THE PISTONS]

In general, man to man is a lot easier to play, where Zones are more complex as you have to react to the offense and you let guys pass through your zone and into the next.

Now, one reason our man to man might have had success is SD probably prepared for our Zone.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-12-2018, 11:34 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I always thought WJ3 and Dennard were better suited for man coverage, and Dennard specifically for press man coverage.
When it comes to the LBs though, I don't think they quite have the coverage ability to play man coverage, they have to stick to a zone. Unfortunately, even that didn't work.
I never bothered to research Austin's defensive scheme when he was in Detroit, all I remember is they created turnovers (fantasy football points!), but if he always operated in the scheme we saw when he was in Cincinnati, it probably was never going to work because the Bengals don't have the personnel for that.

To be honest, I was surprised Kevin Coyle wasn't promoted to DC after Guenther left last year. He wasn't the best DC ever but he did have the following defensive rankings in Miami when he was DC there...
2012 - 19.8 PPG (7th)
2013 - 20.9 PPG (8th)
2014 - 23.3 PPG (20th)
2015 - Coyle was let go by interim HC Dan Campbell in early October.

I would have happily had Coyle over Austin, as Coyle never had the worst defense in the NFL in both yardage and points per game.

Good stuff on Coyle, yeah, he would of been much better than Austin and we all know it after that debacle.

To the OP i agree with the guys that said Marv was rusty after not being a DC for 16 years.

Hope the new DC notices that these Corners are much better playing man, not zone and we need some more cover LB's.

Cause yeah, Vigil is all we got at this point. Hope Malik gets a shot this season.