Reds Need Pitching This December

[kevin]

I'm seeing on Reds.com Reds talking of dumping Hamilton and Scooter, but maybe getting Puig or Inciarte. That's a whole bunch of nothing right there. THEY NEED PITCHING and yes, I am yelling it. THEY NEED PITCHING. Stop talking about over paid outfielders. They can find players on the cheap as good or better than Puig and Inciarte. If they don't add pitching, this team will never get out of last place. The Reds don't have enough pitching in the majors or minors to be contenders. I doubt they can get a Kluber, but they really need 5 guys that can start. For example in the days of Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Catfish Hunter, I thought the Reds made good moves picking up guys like Fred Norman, Jack Billingham. So Reds don't need high paid All-Star. They need to add some guys that start, eat innings, can give you 10 wins or more. The Reds pitchers last few years are just awful.

Reds need to come out of Winter Meetings and Rule 5 with PITCHING. Starters, Relievers. I like our closer, but the rest is a disaster area.

[guyofthetiger]

No need to rush delivery. I'm comfortable waiting until Spring to get or develop good pitching. I also doubt we get a good ace this offseason.

[Yojimbo]

Well the Puig trade may also bring in Alex Wood. That wood be a pretty nice addition to the staff.

And the bullpen wis waaaay better than just a good closer. Lorenzen, Hughes, Hernandez and Garrett are great relievers.

[grampahol]

Kevin ,they still need a center fielder regardless of pitching. It's not sure if they'll nab a top starter or two, but so far I'm pleased with the latest acquisition of Roark. Rainy wasn't going anywhere in the major leagues at least with our staff. I don't want to see them sacrifice pitching for a CFer, but Billy was never going to cut it hitting in the 9 hole especially fielding in tiny GABP.. They don't need a burner out there, but really could stand to have a solid lead off guy who can also play CF.. 

[Yojimbo]

New rumor from Buster Olney, the Reds current top pitching trade target is Marcus Stroman from Toronto. Obviously the team lied about being serious contenders if they think Roark or Stroman is going to be the staff ace.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-14-2018, 08:37 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: New rumor from Buster Olney, the Reds current top pitching trade target is Marcus Stroman from Toronto. Obviously the team lied about being serious contenders if they think Roark or Stroman is going to be the staff ace.

They were talking big at the end of the season, $$money$$ to spend blah, blah, like they were going to be players for "real" free agent pitching but it was just talk. They'll pick up a couple middle of the road types and perhaps a position player but that's about it.

They're not going to do much until they rid themselves of Bailey.

[*psychdoctor*]

I said this in another thread but I think the Reds have in their sights two quality pitchers: One, being Sonny Gray. I am not sure how I feel about Gray. He did better away than at Yankee Stadium. Of course I would like Kluber but the cost may be too much. They need at least two position 1-2 pitchers and Kluber and Gray would fit that need.

[Goalpost]

Realistically they are at Castillo, Roark, DeSclafani, Mahle, Romano, and... maybe Lorenzen can convert to a starter. Yes. They still need more.

[samhain]

(12-14-2018, 10:37 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Realistically they are at Castillo, Roark, DeSclafani, Mahle, Romano, and... maybe Lorenzen can convert to a starter.  Yes.  They still need more.

I wouldn't mind seeing Raisel starting if they don't plan to trade him.  He's their best pitcher and was originally acquired to be a starter.  A team this starved for starters has to do whatever they can.  I'd put Reed in the pen and see if he, Amir or Lorenzen could take over closing duties.

Do this, acquire one more serviceable guy this year, and see how it pans out.  The money situation will improve after 19 when Homer is off the books.  Throw money at an ace next December if significant improvement is made.  

I'd grab another guy like Gio Gonzalez or even re-sign Harvey for now. I might not even trade for a guy like Gray or Stroman if it meant giving up a lot. Hold on to the prospects from the rebuild and wait one more year.....

[CJD]

I'm personally curious what's going on with Dallas Kuechel. Is his agent being unreasonable with his asking price? Or is there something wrong with him that hasn't reached the national media yet?

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-16-2018, 08:45 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm personally curious what's going on with Dallas Kuechel. Is his agent being unreasonable with his asking price? Or is there something wrong with him that hasn't reached the national media yet?

I think he wants a relatively long contract in the range of 4 years 80 mil

[Goalpost]

Harvey signed to be an Angel. One year 11 million

[CJD]

https://www.redreporter.com/2018/12/19/18148964/reds-indians-trade-corey-kluber-nick-senzel-taylor-trammell

We're still in talks with Cleveland about Corey Kluber.

At first thought, this was really exciting to me. But then it seems like they want Senzel plus more (which may even include Trammell!)...

Senzel has the potential to be a legitimate star in this league. He is a 5 tool player who has hit for average and power from the moment he was drafted. I just don't think it'd be a wise decision to trade 6 years of Senzel and possibly 6 years of Trammell for 3 years of Corey Kluber.

As much as Reds fans are excited for next season due to the fresh coaching staff and seemingly renewed faith in the front office to spend some money towards winning...I just don't see next year as a playoff year.

Maybe in 2020 they can compete for the wild card, but then you only have 2 years of Kluber.
By 2021, the first year we can realistically expect to truly compete for the division title and possibly world series, Joey Votto will be 37 and Kluber will be on the final year of his deal.

Optimistically, Greene will be in the majors by 2020, meaning we'd have a 1-2 punch that would be hard to beat. But that's assuming Greene works out and Kluber doesn't rapidly decline in the mean time.

Alternatively, you could have Senzel entering his first year of arbitration in 2022, meaning he'll be with the team until 2024, at least. And if Trammell comes up in 2020, we'll have him through 2025.

I just don't see that trade being worth the prospects. I know prospects aren't guaranteed and, for all we know, Senzel will be an oft-injured (vertigo being a major concern) bust and Trammell will never fulfill his potential, but I dunno...I already wish we didn't trade Didi Gregorius, who has turned out to be a magnificent Shortstop for the Yankees (we traded him for Shin-Soo Choo, who was in the final year of arbitration, so it was essentially a ***** rental.) Meanwhile, Didi has become a 4 WAR shortstop with offensive power (very rare for a shortstop)...

So the idea of trading prospects for a little bit of "now" has always been daunting to me...

I still hope we just sack up and pay for Dallas Keuchel, even if he is destined to only be a #2 or #3 starting pitcher.

We can get our ace next off season if we improve as much as we hope in 2019. It's important to remember: we were a trash team this past year. Expecting the playoffs in the following year would be quite the turnaround.

[Goalpost]

So Corey Kluber has a contract of 17 million next year, followed by 17.5 million, followed by 18.5 million before he becomes a free agent. So here's the thing...why bother trading prospects for this. Just keep your prospects and sign free agent pitcher at this salary. I mean we can get a free agent pitcher in this range WITHOUT giving up prospects, right?

[CJD]

(12-20-2018, 02:08 PM)Goalpost Wrote: So Corey Kluber has a contract of 17 million next year, followed by 17.5 million, followed by 18.5 million before he becomes a free agent.  So here's the thing...why bother trading prospects for this.  Just keep your prospects and sign free agent pitcher at this salary.  I mean we can get a free agent pitcher in this range WITHOUT giving up prospects, right?

Well, we could. But they'd be significantly worse than Kluber.

Kluber is one of the best pitchers in the major leagues. The available free agent pitchers are #2 and #3 pitchers, but will likely cost about the same, if not more (because free agency numbers can get a little nuts.)

[samhain]

This offseason is a stark illustration of what a second-rate trash heap the Reds organization truly is. Not only have they lied to us about trying to get better and spend more, they're actually trying to get worse.

If they trade their best minor league prospects for a 31 year old Kluber with a 17 mil per contract, then they are getting punked by a far superior front office because they don't want to pay money to free agent pitchers. Cheap, unprofessional, insincere to the fanbase.

They need to stop being the no-heart, no-balls ******** that they've shown to be over the last 5 years and shell out some cash now. Sign Keuchel. Offer him what it takes. Bring in a Gio Gonzalez type or someone similar. Good pitching isn't cheap. The market has been set. The top guys like Corbin are signing and the mid level guys like Lynn and Harvey are as well. Step up to the plate, you two-bit money-grubbing losers. That, or admit that you don't really give a shit because the ownership group is still profiting. They should disband this shit show.

Bring in fre agents, keep your prospect haul from the rebuild. That's the answer right there. it's a tough pill to swallow, but since this organization sucks balls at developing starting pitching, it's the bed they've made. If they trade trammel and Senzel for Kluber, then we're looking at another rebuild and a broken down former ace making a lot of money in a year or two. We can all joyfully watch as the Browns pass the Bengals with their franchise quarterback and the Indians maintain their recent level of success after fleecing us out of players we drafted.

F this team and shame on them for lying to us about trying to improve. They are not only inept, but also liars to boot. Chickenshit liars, period.

[Circleville Guy]

The only way that I’m trading our top prospects is for a younger ace that has team control. They should have jumped on Lynn and maybe Gio and keep those prospects and try to sort it all out for 2020. I don’t see any moves that makes this team much better than a .500 team. Why give away future stars if it doesn’t put you into the playoffs. I know that the owners have said a few things but their plans still don’t seem clear. They have that halfway mentality.