Congrats Geno

[bengalhoel]

(12-19-2018, 08:53 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Then you haven't paid attention.

One of only 3 DTs to have double digit sacks. Also has 13 TFLs, which ranks him 13th in the NFL. Only two interior lineman are above him (Donald and Buckner).
Last week, Geno Atkins had 54 total QB pressures, ranking him 3rd among ALL NFL players. He now has 61 total QB pressures after his game against Oakland.
Who would you put ahead of him?

I have watched every second of every game. I love Geno as much as anyone but we all stats do not tell all. 

I have watched him disappear for a 4 game stretch when it mattered this year. 

Week 6-10 when we played Pitt, Kc , TB and NO  He had 7 tackles and 0 sacks 0 QB hits.  That was the make the season stretch and he disappeared. He had 10 sacks which is amazing for a DL but great players come up in big games and the stats dont lie.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-20-2018, 12:28 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: I have watched every second of every game. I love Geno as much as anyone but we all stats do not tell all. 

I have watched him disappear for a 4 game stretch when it mattered this year. 

Week 6-10 when we played Pitt, Kc , TB and NO  He had 7 tackles and 0 sacks 0 QB hits.  That was the make the season stretch and he disappeared. He had 10 sacks which is amazing for a DL but great players come up in big games and the stats dont lie.

So. Wait. Stats don't tell all, but then you wanna USE stats to make an argument??? I don't understand. Do stats matter or do they not?

And guess Aaron Donald isn't great since he has 0 sacks in the Rams three losses? I mean, he had 5 tackles and 0 sacks in those 3 games.

If you actually, you know, watched games like you said you do, you would know that Geno Atkins disrupts the backfield a lot. It's not a stat you can just look up on ESPN.

But PFF has that stat! And, again, Atkins ranked 3rd among all NFL players in QB pressures. And then added 7 more QB pressures. And throw in the TFLs, which, Atkins is top 3 among interior defensive lineman.

[bengalhoel]

(12-20-2018, 01:09 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: So. Wait. Stats don't tell all, but then you wanna USE stats to make an argument??? I don't understand. Do stats matter or do they not?

And guess Aaron Donald isn't great since he has 0 sacks in the Rams three losses? I mean, he had 5 tackles and 0 sacks in those 3 games.

If you actually, you know, watched games like you said you do, you would know that Geno Atkins disrupts the backfield a lot. It's not a stat you can just look up on ESPN.

But PFF has that stat! And, again, Atkins ranked 3rd among all NFL players in QB pressures. And then added 7 more QB pressures. And throw in the TFLs, which,  Atkins is top 3 among interior defensive lineman.

Thats just it, you can make them say what they want. I have watched every game.  I dont know what Aaron Donald does because I havent seen many of the Rams games but purely by stats he is having a good year. 

I watched all the Bengals games, every second. I know when you are giving up 56% conversion rates on 3rd down, no one on the damn defense should even be near the Pro Bowl. What if someone had 22 sacks in one game and 0 in the other 15? Is that a successful season? I know that every time we needed a stop no one was pressuring anyone including Geno. 

For Christ sake , John Ross has 6 Tds this year and Boyd has 7. Do you think they are having that close of similar seasons?

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-20-2018, 01:56 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: Thats just it, you can make them say what they want. I have watched every game.  I dont know what Aaron Donald does because I havent seen many of the Rams games but purely by stats he is having a good year. 

I watched all the Bengals games, every second. I know when you are giving up 56% conversion rates on 3rd down, no one on the damn defense should even be near the Pro Bowl. What if someone had 22 sacks in one game and 0 in the other 15? Is that a successful season? I know that every time we needed a stop no one was pressuring anyone including Geno. 

For Christ sake , John Ross has 6 Tds this year and Boyd has 7. Do you think they are having that close of similar seasons?

Congrats. So have I.

Well the Bengals are not giving up a 56% conversion rate on 3rd down. So that's wrong right there. Also, you realize that there are great players on bad teams, right? Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson have been a part of some bad offenses. What about, hey! Aaron Donald? Bottom 10 defense during one of his All-Pro years. But guess he doesn't deserve that.

Well that's a lie right there about the pressures because, AGAIN, Geno Atkins has 71 pressures. Before this week he ranked 3rd most among ALL NFL players. Every. Single. One. And then he added 7 more this past game.
That's a fact. You can't argue it.

Sigh, you are really bad at this.
You're using 1 stat line. I'm using multiple.
You're using TDs only. I'm not talking about solely sacks. I'm bringing MULTIPLE facts to the table.

Geno Atkins is top 3 in sacks among interior line. Top 3 in tackles for loss among interior line. Top 3 among ALL players in QB pressure. Tied for 4th among all interior line in QB hits.

Can you name any other defensive tackles around those numbers?

But let's talk about how he's done against teams that are currently at .500 or higher. 6 sacks against 8 teams at .500 or higher. As well as 13 QB hits and 7 tackles for losses.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Did he, or did he not have a pretty long stretch were he was not making much of an impact? Yes or no? Were opposing QB’s having all day to throw a lot of the time? Were we getting absolutely gashed in the running game week after week?

I’m not even talking about if he deserves a pro bowl or not, because if his overall numbers are better than most of his peers, then great, he deserves to go. All I’m personally saying is I don’t think Geno was one of our best players this season (outside a couple games). Others were more consistent like Mixon and Boyd. I wish Geno, Dunlap, and the rest of the defense would have played better during that skid where we lost 7 out of 8 games. Literally all I’m saying.

Still love Geno. Still think Geno is one of the GOAT Bengals and DT.

[Catmandude123]

(12-20-2018, 02:55 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Congrats. So have I.

Well the Bengals are not giving up a 56% conversion rate on 3rd down. So that's wrong right there. Also, you realize that there are great players on bad teams, right? Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson have been a part of some bad offenses. What about, hey! Aaron Donald? Bottom 10 defense during one of his All-Pro years. But guess he doesn't deserve that.

Well that's a lie right there about the pressures because, AGAIN, Geno Atkins has 71 pressures. Before this week he ranked 3rd most among ALL NFL players. Every. Single. One. And then he added 7 more this past game.
That's a fact. You can't argue it.

Sigh, you are really bad at this.
You're using 1 stat line. I'm using multiple.
You're using TDs only. I'm not talking about solely sacks. I'm bringing MULTIPLE facts to the table.

Geno Atkins is top 3 in sacks among interior line. Top 3 in tackles for loss among interior line. Top 3 among ALL players in QB pressure. Tied for 4th among all interior line in QB hits.

Can you name any other defensive tackles around those numbers?

But let's talk about how he's done against teams that are currently at .500 or higher. 6 sacks against 8 teams at .500 or higher. As well as 13 QB hits and 7 tackles for losses.

Just who are the eight teams above .500? Here are the games against teams still in playoff hunt Chargers zero sacks, NO zero sacks, Kc zero sacks, Browns zero sacks, Steelers zero sacks, Broncos zero sacks. Try to skew the stats all you want he has played poorly against good teams.
Also the Bengals third downs allowed rate is over fifty percent. Its good that he had those three sacks last week it really gives some fans something to crow about. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-20-2018, 06:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Just who are the eight teams above .500? Here are the games against teams still in playoff hunt Chargers zero sacks, NO zero sacks, Kc zero sacks, Browns zero sacks, Steelers zero sacks, Broncos zero sacks. Try to skew the stats all you want he has played poorly against good teams.
Also the Bengals third downs allowed rate is over fifty percent. Its good that he had those three sacks last week it really gives some fans something to crow about. 

3 against Baltimore who is currently in a playoff spot.

2 against Miami, and 1 against Indy, both who are technically still in the hunt.

At least be accurate with your argument.

[Catmandude123]

(12-19-2018, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So pressures mean nothing to you?

If so this tells me all i need to know. Sacks are overrated, for Geno to be third in total pressures at his position
is not disappearing by my definition and is not underwhelming. We will see how he does against the Steelers in
the last game shall we, he only had one game against them this year and they were holding all game long.

They better hold him or he will destroy the Pig.

He hasn't had ONE sack against Pittsburgh( our biggest rival in case you didn't know) since 2015. That is five straight without one single sack. I could match that performance.

[Catmandude123]

(12-19-2018, 06:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To criticize his performance this year you eliminated his good games.

To criticize his performance against the Steelers you eliminated his good games.

Every DT in the league plays against bad teams, and Atkins is one of only 3 DTs to have 10 sacks this year.  If that is "disappearing" then almost every DT in the league has also "disappeared" this year. 


Aaron Donald has 6 games with zero sack and Atkins has 8.  What is the big deal?

Eliminating games from three years ago isn't cherry picking. Atkins has a total .4 sacks per game against Pitt. That is one sack every two and a half games. If you are ok with your best players disappearing in big games then that means you are alright with the Bengals being a laughing stock for their prime time games.

[Catmandude123]

(12-20-2018, 07:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 3 against Baltimore who is currently in a playoff spot.

2 against Miami, and 1 against Indy, both who are technically still in the hunt.

At least be accurate with your argument.

Six sacks against three possible playoff teams. ZERO sacks against SIX possible playoff teams. Trying to butter up your stats won't work . I am very accurate you are misleading.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-20-2018, 08:01 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Six sacks against three possible playoff teams. ZERO sacks against SIX possible playoff teams. Trying to butter up your stats won't work . I am very accurate you are misleading.

You claimed he didn’t have any sacks against playoff teams or teams in the hunt. I corrected you. Nothing misleading about it.

[Nicomo Cosca]

You can be disappointed with Geno’s play at certain times (I have been somewhat this year), or against particular teams, but there’s no reason to be disingenuous about what he has done.

[Catmandude123]

(12-20-2018, 08:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You claimed he didn’t have any sacks against playoff teams or teams in the hunt. I corrected you. Nothing misleading about it.

I responded to a fact that someone stated 6 sacks against 8 playoff teams. That was misleading and you would have to be Bengals homer to accept that as fact. Six sacks vs three po teams was correct and Zero sacks vs 6 po teams was also correct. Your assumption of 6-8 seeks to assume a 75% sack rate /game  while it really is 33% per game. So you are satisfied with our highest paid defensive player disappearing in big games ? He makes 19 million /year for 4million more we could have had Mack who is a game changing defensive force.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-20-2018, 08:39 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I responded to a fact that someone stated 6 sacks against 8 playoff teams. That was misleading and you would have to be Bengals homer to accept that as fact. Six sacks vs three po teams was correct and Zero sacks vs 6 po teams was also correct. Your assumption of 6-8 seeks to assume a 75% sack rate /game  while it really is 33% per game. So you are satisfied with our highest paid defensive player disappearing in big games ? He makes 19 million /year for 4million more we could have had Mack who is a game changing defensive force.

I’ve said multiple times in this thread I have not been satisfied with his season.

[Catmandude123]

(12-19-2018, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 17 games against the steelers geno has 8 sacks 12 qb hits and 9 tackles for loss. Those are excellent numbers for an interior d- lineman.

The only way you can criticize geno is to take away his best games. That is borderline trolling.

He has half those sacks in three games. BTW the Bengals won those games and are 3-15 since Geno came into the league(to be fair Geno missed one year with an injury and was a shell of himself the following year). So it means in the other 15 games he has FOUR sacks.

[Catmandude123]

(12-20-2018, 08:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You claimed he didn’t have any sacks against playoff teams or teams in the hunt. I corrected you. Nothing misleading about it.

Post that quote,  I went back and looked and nowhere did I say he had no sacks against po teams. I can put my foot in my mouth sometines and don't need any help.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-20-2018, 09:00 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Post that quote,  I went back and looked and nowhere did I say he had no sacks against po teams. I can put my foot in my mouth sometines and don't need any help.

You insinuated. You listed a bunch of teams in the playoffs or in the hunt, and pointed out he didn’t have any sacks against any of them. Why did you not mention Baltimore, Miami, or Indy? Some would call it classic cherry picking...

[Atomic Orange]

Again i'm just pissed Mixon is a third alternate. FFS he leads the AFC in rushing despite playing behind one of the worst lines in the NFL, despite missing two games, and despite Lazor's poor use of him.

Sure the PB game doesn't mean squat these days and in fact it hurts the actual honor of being selected - but being selected still means something.

Obviously, considering all the bickering about Atkins.

[fredtoast]

(12-20-2018, 07:43 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Eliminating games from three years ago isn't cherry picking. Atkins has a total .4 sacks per game against Pitt. That is one sack every two and a half games. If you are ok with your best players disappearing in big games then that means you are alright with the Bengals being a laughing stock for their prime time games.

What you are doing is setting the bar at an impossible level just so you can shit on our best player.

Give me the name of a dt who had a sack in every game or stfu.

Aaron Donald is considered to be one of the greatest dts ever and he has 6 games with zero sacks this year.

[fredtoast]

(12-20-2018, 07:24 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: He hasn't had ONE sack against Pittsburgh( our biggest rival in case you didn't know) since 2015. That is five straight without one single sack. I could match that performance 

This is obvious trolling.